Museum's learning to deal with Creationists

[immortalavefenix]

Let them.

Let them raise a generation of uncritical, unscientific, unobjective Americans.

It will make the job of the people like me so much easier.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

And these are taught in school.

As they should be. And as evolution should be.
From your comments about evolution it appears you think it shouldn't be taught because some parents object.

I didn't mean all, hence I didn't say all.

I would suggest that when making accusations the wording should clearly express the limits set on the accusation. Your wording could be taken to apply to all professors.

Well, I don't support the idea that someone is reliquished their responsibility in how they are treat people because someone else has done something.

If a student makes a bunch of Hovindite creationist arguments there is almost no way the professor/teacher could avoid embarrassing the student. If the teacher is very careful and the student doesn't have too thin of a skin the student might escape without humiliation.

But unless the teacher/professor tries to humiliate the student, any blame for humiliation is split between the student and at those who either lied to the student or were negligent in their failure to confirm the information they passed on to the student.

Face it, when you tell a teacher that you know better than he does about a very basic issue, and when the teacher is aware both that you are wrong and that there are others who believe as you do, then it is incumbant upon the teacher to demonstrate in a substantial way that you are wrong.

And having stuck your neck out only to have it chopped off tends to be painful, regardless of how gentle the executioner is.

I never support snide remarks and/or personal attacks made by teachers.

 

[Critias]

As they should be. And as evolution should be.
From your comments about evolution it appears you think it shouldn't be taught because some parents object.

Maybe you just don't want to believe me, but I have said, more than once, that I think evolution should be taught. I just think presenting other view points is smart. Obviously, you don't share this.

I would suggest that when making accusations the wording should clearly express the limits set on the accusation. Your wording could be taken to apply to all professors.

It is more than an accusation. It is truth. It happens more often than you may realize. Granted not all professors do this, but there is a growing number that do.

If a student makes a bunch of Hovindite creationist arguments there is almost no way the professor/teacher could avoid embarrassing the student. If the teacher is very careful and the student doesn't have too thin of a skin the student might escape without humiliation.

I have witnessed a student being asked about evolution by a professor on their stance. They said they were a Christian and believed in the Biblical account. They didn't make any scientific claims. From there, they were ridiculed in the class for more than 10 minutes.

Do you think that was what the student deserved?

But unless the teacher/professor tries to humiliate the student, any blame for humiliation is split between the student and at those who either lied to the student or were negligent in their failure to confirm the information they passed on to the student.

And here you are taking responsibility off the professor to be liable for his/her actions. The professors had a choice of how to act and no one was forcing him or her to humilate another person.

Face it, when you tell a teacher that you know better than he does about a very basic issue, and when the teacher is aware both that you are wrong and that there are others who believe as you do, then it is incumbant upon the teacher to demonstrate in a substantial way that you are wrong.

And from what I have seen and read this isn't even the majority of the case. It is when a student lets his/her position be known that the professor begins to humilate the student. You are assuming that all creationists would stand up in class and tell the teacher they know more than him/her. That isn't the case.

I just cannot believe that you justify the professors actions here.

And having stuck your neck out only to have it chopped off tends to be painful, regardless of how gentle the executioner is.

I never support snide remarks and/or personal attacks made by teachers.

Yeah. Just like in the days of old when the Apostles stuck their neck out to preach the word of God and only to have it chopped off.

You spent most of the time in this response justifying the professors actions and then end it with saying you "never" support personal attacks made by a professor. That is not very convincing when you spent so much time justifying them.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Maybe you just don't want to believe me, but I have said, more than once, that I think evolution should be taught.

1) I missed that and I apologize.
2) None the less your posts suggest that you think parents should be able to vote what is taught in science.

I just think presenting other view points is smart. Obviously, you don't share this.

I don't think either the theory that Jews manufactured the "myth of the Holocaust" or the theory that the Sun goes around the Earth deserve classroom time as theories to be considered seriously.

There are other reasons to discuss Holocaust Revisionism and geocentrism and even Creation Science, but not as theories/analyses of facts to be taken seriously.

It is more than an accusation. It is truth.

I couldn't figure out a good way of wording that, I tried to make it clear I was making a general statement. I did not mean to imply that your statement was not factual.

I have witnessed a student being asked about evolution by a professor on their stance.

Was there a particular reason the professor asked?
Regardless the ridicule was still wrong.

And here you are taking responsibility off the professor to be liable for his/her actions. The professors had a choice of how to act and no one was forcing him or her to humilate another person.

There is a distinction between humiliating a student by going for the juggler and humiliating him because he has created a situation in which the only way to be certain not to cause pain would be for the instructor to ignore his duties.

I have consistantly described the type of situation I was discussing. In particular a situation which mirrored the situation described in the OP.

If a student believes in YECism, that should be irrelevant and of no interest to the professor. It is when the student claims that the physical evidence supports that belief that it becomes a serious problem that the professor must address.

At that point the student may very well feel humiliated regardless of the finesse with which the professor handles the situation.

In any case that is entirely different from looking for a student to pick on.

then [You] end it with saying you "never" support personal attacks made by a professor. That is not very convincing when you spent so much time justifying them.

Where in my posts have I attempted to justify personal attacks?