Murderer ?!?

[Stone-n-Steel]

Under the Mosaic Law and in society, we have rules that punish those who commit murder. God clearly has issues with this sin. If you asked any person that you meet you will find the same response. Murder is not accepted by both man or God.

However, there was a man named Saul of Tarsus who did just that. He committed murder against the people of God.

Acts 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

Gal. 1:13,14 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.​

As a good Bible student knows this man became known as Paul who was used to write most of the scriptures we hold dear for our salvation. By looking at this passage, you can see just who you were before and compare it to now. Don’t let your past hold you back and let your friends know that no matter what they have done they can still know Jesus.

Rom. 5:8-10 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath througgh him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being recoonciled, we shall be saved by his life.​

 

[Dave-W]

Are you saying that we should not be listening to the writings of a murderer? (Paul) That he should have been stoned to death before coming to faith?

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

Are you saying that we should not be listening to the writings of a murderer? (Paul) That he should have been stoned to death before coming to faith?

Absolutely not!

If Saul of Tarsus came to your house then you should run and hide. If Paul came let him in and rejoice in what he has to say about the Lord.

My intention was to point out that even the most horrible crime should not keep you from salvation nor should it hold you back from being a great Christian. I take Paul as my example of what it means to be saved.

 

[Dave-W]

My intention was to point out that even the most horrible crime should not keep you from salvation nor should it hold you back from being a great Christian. I take Paul as my example of what it means to be saved.

OK - that was not clear, at least to me.

I have heard some say that because he was a murderer, his letters should be thrown out entirely.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If Saul of Tarsus came to your house then you should run and hide.

Maybe they should still run and hide because now Paul has as much Zeal to serve God as he did to fight against God. The first thing Paul would do, after answering any question you may have is he would ask people why they are not living free from sin to serve God in the way our Heavenly Father wants us to serve Him. For Paul learning the truth is not enough. We need to live the life God is calling us to live and present ourselves as a living sacrifice before God. We need to die to our old man and become a new creation in Christ.

In Heaven they always do the will of God. There will be a new Heaven and a New Earth. The Earth will become as Heaven is and once again God will be able to look to see that the Word of God accomplishes His purpose and that all is good.

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

OK - that was not clear, at least to me.

I have heard some say that because he was a murderer, his letters should be thrown out entirely.

King David by proxy commited murder and committed adulatory. To ignore him would be as grevious as ignoring Paul.

 

[Martyr's Crown]

This is are bible verses which stays stuck in my mind, reminding me of how merciful God is to forgive and forget your sins when you truthfully repent before Him, as well as wishes to live a life for Him. And it also shows what happens when someone decides to turn away from God, none of their good works will be of any more worth to God then.

Ezekiel 18:21-24

"But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? says the Lord God, and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die."

 

[SkyWriting]

OK - that was not clear, at least to me.

I have heard some say that because he was a murderer, his letters should be thrown out entirely.

Only that as Chief of all sinners, he is suspect.

 

[SkyWriting]

King David by proxy commited murder and committed adulatory. To ignore him would be as grevious as ignoring Paul.

All of scripture was written by sinners.

 

[Zoii]

"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."

― Voltaire 1760

 

[mmksparbud]

OK - that was not clear, at least to me.

I have heard some say that because he was a murderer, his letters should be thrown out entirely.

So was David!

 

[Ligurian]

Under the Mosaic Law and in society, we have rules that punish those who commit murder. God clearly has issues with this sin. If you asked any person that you meet you will find the same response. Murder is not accepted by both man or God.

However, there was a man named Saul of Tarsus who did just that. He committed murder against the people of God.

Acts 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

Gal. 1:13,14 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.​

Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this (οδόν) way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

οδόν, hodos = apparently a primary word; a road; by implication, a progress (the route, act or distance); figuratively, a mode or means:--journey, (high-)way.

Jeremiah 32:39-40 And I will give them another (οδόν) Way and another heart, to fear Me continually, and that for good to them and their children after them.[40] And I will make with them an Everlasting Covenant, which I will by no means turn away from them, and I will put My fear into their heart, that they may not depart from Me.(LXX, Jeremias 39)

John 14:6 Ιησους saith unto him, I am the (οδόν) way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

 

[Ligurian]

King David by proxy commited murder and committed adulatory.

Whatever else might be said of David, the man knew how to repent.

Psalm 51 For the end, a Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came to him, when he had gone to Bersabee.
Psalms 51:1-17 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to Thy great mercy; and according to the multitude of Thy compassions blot out my transgression.[2] Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
[3] For I am conscious of mine iniquity; and my sin is continually before me.[4] Against Thee only have I sinned, and done evil before Thee: that Thou mightest be justified in Thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.[5] For, behold, I was conceived in iniquities, and in sins did my mother conceive me.
[6] For, behold, Thou lovest truth: Thou hast manifested to me the secret and hidden things of Thy wisdom.[7] Thou shalt sprinkle me with hyssop, and I shall be purified: Thou shalt wash me, and I shall be made whiter than snow.[8] Thou shalt cause me to hear gladness and joy: the afflicted bones shall rejoice.[9] Turn away thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.[10] Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit in my inward parts.[11] Cast me not away from Thy presence, and remove not Thy Holy Spirit from me.[12] Restore to me the joy of Thy salvation: establish me with Thy directing Spirit.[13] Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and ungodly men shall turn to Thee.[14] Deliver me from blood-guiltiness, O God, the God of my salvation: and my tongue shall joyfully declare Thy righteousness.[15] O Lord, Thou shalt open my lips; and my mouth shall declare Thy praise.[16] For if Thou desiredst sacrifice, I would have given it: Thou wilt not take pleasure in whole-burnt-offerings.[17] Sacrifice to God is a broken spirit: a broken and humbled heart God will not despise.

Ephraim has this prayer, with the same outcome, for the same reason.

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me and I was chastened. I as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord my God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me, for because My words are in him I will surely remember him. Therefore I made haste to help him, I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.LXX

because My words are in him

John 14:23 Ιησους answered and said unto him, If a man love Me he will keep My words, and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him and make Our abode with him.[24] He that loveth Me not keepeth not My sayings; and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.

Revelation 3:7-11 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth and no man shutteth, and shutteth and no man openeth:[8] I know thy works. Behold, I have set before thee an open door and no man can shut it, for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word and hast not denied My name. ...[11] Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. (Revelation 22:16)

Isaiah 22:22-24 And I will give Him the glory of David and He shall rule, and there shall be none to speak against Him. And I will give Him the key of the house of David upon His shoulder, and He shall open and there shall be none to shut, and He shall shut and there shall be none to open.[23] And I will make Him a ruler in a sure place, and He shall be for a glorious throne of His Father’s house.[24] And every one that is glorious in the house of His Father shall trust in Him, from the least to the greatest, and they shall depend upon Him in that day.

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

Whatever else might be said of David, the man knew how to repent.

This makes him an excellent choice for Rom 4:6-8 which must have confused the enemy then and even more so when Paul revealed Gods plan of grace for the world.

 

[Ligurian]

Whatever else might be said of David, the man knew how to repent.

Psalm 51 For the end, a Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came to him, when he had gone to Bersabee.
Psalms 51:1-17 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to Thy great mercy; and according to the multitude of Thy compassions blot out my transgression.[2] Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
[3] For I am conscious of mine iniquity; and my sin is continually before me.[4] Against Thee only have I sinned, and done evil before Thee: that Thou mightest be justified in Thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.[5] For, behold, I was conceived in iniquities, and in sins did my mother conceive me.
[6] For, behold, Thou lovest truth: Thou hast manifested to me the secret and hidden things of Thy wisdom.[7] Thou shalt sprinkle me with hyssop, and I shall be purified: Thou shalt wash me, and I shall be made whiter than snow.[8] Thou shalt cause me to hear gladness and joy: the afflicted bones shall rejoice.[9] Turn away thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.[10] Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit in my inward parts.[11] Cast me not away from Thy presence, and remove not Thy Holy Spirit from me.[12] Restore to me the joy of Thy salvation: establish me with Thy directing Spirit.[13] Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and ungodly men shall turn to Thee.[14] Deliver me from blood-guiltiness, O God, the God of my salvation: and my tongue shall joyfully declare Thy righteousness.[15] O Lord, Thou shalt open my lips; and my mouth shall declare Thy praise.[16] For if Thou desiredst sacrifice, I would have given it: Thou wilt not take pleasure in whole-burnt-offerings.[17] Sacrifice to God is a broken spirit: a broken and humbled heart God will not despise.

Ephraim has this prayer, with the same outcome, for the same reason.

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me and I was chastened. I as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord my God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me, for because My words are in him I will surely remember him. Therefore I made haste to help him, I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.LXX

because My words are in him

John 14:23 Ιησους answered and said unto him, If a man love Me he will keep My words, and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him and make Our abode with him.[24] He that loveth Me not keepeth not My sayings; and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.

Revelation 3:7-11 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth and no man shutteth, and shutteth and no man openeth:[8] I know thy works. Behold, I have set before thee an open door and no man can shut it, for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word and hast not denied My name. ...[11] Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. (Revelation 22:16)

Isaiah 22:22-24 And I will give Him the glory of David and He shall rule, and there shall be none to speak against Him. And I will give Him the key of the house of David upon His shoulder, and He shall open and there shall be none to shut, and He shall shut and there shall be none to open.[23] And I will make Him a ruler in a sure place, and He shall be for a glorious throne of His Father’s house.[24] And every one that is glorious in the house of His Father shall trust in Him, from the least to the greatest, and they shall depend upon Him in that day.

This makes him an excellent choice for Rom 4:6-8 which must have confused the enemy then and even more so when Paul revealed Gods plan of grace for the world.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you gentiles, inasmuch as I am the (ἀπόστολος) apostle of the gentiles, I magnify mine office:

1 Corinthians 12:2, Ephesians 3:1, 2 Timothy 1:11, Galatians 2:8

====================

Matthew 10:1-7 And when He had called unto Him His Twelve (μαθητὰς) Disciples, He gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.[2] Now the names of the Twelve (ἀποστόλων) apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother, James [the son] of Zebedee and John his brother,[3] Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican, James [the son] of Alphaeus and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus,[4] Simon the Canaanite and Judas Iscariot who also betrayed Him.[5] These Twelve Ιησους sent forth and Commanded them, saying, Go not unto the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:[6] But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not (ἀπεστάλην) sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel.