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Multiverses are pseudo science, secularist, ideology

Bradskii

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Wow. Some things I agree with. Some I don't. And a lot I hadn't heard before. If nothing else it says I need to read more about this.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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Wow. Some things I agree with. Some I don't. And a lot I hadn't heard before. If nothing else it says I need to read more about this.
haha I'm now 7 paragraphs into the article.

I'll be happy if I actually have a chance to get to the end (let alone understand the material haha)
 
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o_mlly

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That's certainly a kinder explanation than the thought that you are just looking for further opportunities to deliver snide little ad hominems.
Do you mean like these?

And yet there is a great deal of the child in your self-centred attitudes.
You seem not to understand the difference ...
I think he's just trying another snow job.
You were the one on the hook and you are still there, wriggling pointlessly.
Do I detect symptoms of the "Glass House" syndrome?

You might find this exercise helpful.
Examinations of Conscience | USCCB
 
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Ophiolite

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Really? The criticisms in items 1 and 4 were germane to the posters opinions expressed in those threads and as such are not "snide ad hominens". (Well they might be snide, but they certainly are not ad hominems.)
Item3 was a humourous comment directed at the content, but I guess humour is alien to you.
Item 2 sounds like a pertinent observation. If you want some genuine examples of my ad hominens I'll search some out for you. Just ask. In the meantime do try to get over yourself.*

*Oh, look. There's one with which to start your collection.
 
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o_mlly

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"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" (Act III, Scene II of Hamlet).
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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I think Tononi and his team have made some very useful advances, and I'm pretty sure you won't get consciousness without the kind of integrated information they have described. However, several examples of simple arrays of logic gates have been described that would have far higher Φ than humans, yet would clearly not be capable of the kind of organised information processing necessary for consciousness.

So I think integrated information is necessary, but nowhere near sufficient; i.e. they have found a measure that will tell you what isn't or can't be conscious, but not much more than that.

They're also not accounting for structural organization, i.e. the functional architecture of the brain, which integrates information from inside and outside the body in very specific ways.

They also miss embodiment with proprioception & interoception - i.e. the neural and hormonal contributions and feedback from the body's internal organs and the senses of body position, orientation, etc. Antonio Damasio has done considerable work that suggests that feedback from the body and the literal mapping of this information in the brain is crucial for the generation of simple feelings (that are the basis for emotions), and the various aspects of the sense of self that are associated with consciousness (e.g. perspective or standpoint, ownership, agency, simple feelings, etc).

It's understandable that they've concentrated on information, but it's just part of a much bigger picture involving organization.
 
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durangodawood

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2 questions from a non math person:

1. Why is this coincidence a "problem" for cosmologists?

2. Why is matter density over a^3 (which makes sense), but radiation density over a^4?
 
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Ophiolite

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"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" (Act III, Scene II of Hamlet).
Just correcting the errors in yet another of your posts. If you keep it up I'll have to start charging.
 
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Hans Blaster

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2 questions from a non math person:

1. Why is this coincidence a "problem" for cosmologists?

2. Why is matter density over a^3 (which makes sense), but radiation density over a^4?

It's more of a physics issue, than math.

The scale factor, a, is a measure of how much the linear dimension of space has expanded. Since volume is length cubed and density mass/volume, density goes as 1/a^3.

For the radiation density it is also related to the energy of the photons. In this case the cosmic background photons that were at T~3000 K when they decoupled from the matter, but are now detectable at 2.73 K (a redshift factor of ~1100, which is also 'a'). So the photon number density goes down in the same fashion (1/a^3) as the matter density, but the energy also goes down as 1/a, so the radiation energy density goes as 1/a^4.
 
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durangodawood

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....So the photon number density goes down in the same fashion (1/a^3) as the matter density, but the energy also goes down as 1/a, so the radiation energy density goes as 1/a^4.
I guess this is what I dont get. Isnt the number of photons per a^3 the energy density? # of photons per volume? Or does each photon also lose energy as it occupies more net space (which is what Im getting from your explanation)?
 
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sjastro

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I guess this is what I dont get. Isnt the number of photons per a^3 the energy density? # of photons per volume? Or does each photon also lose energy as it occupies more net space (which is what Im getting from your explanation)?
You also need to consider the photon energy is inversely proportional to the wavelength λ.
As the universe expands the wavelength increases due to redshift and photon energy decreases.
Hence the photon (radiation) energy density decreases as (1/a)(1/a³) = 1/a⁴ as the universe expands.
 
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sjastro

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2 questions from a non math person:

1. Why is this coincidence a "problem" for cosmologists?

It gets back to the initial conditions for the the matter and dark energy densities which must have been within a very narrow tolerance range to be 'equal' today.
If the range was greater the universe would have evolved differently.

It could simply be a coincidence or an example of the anthropic principle but physicists have a history of attempting to explain such coincidences.
An example is in Newtonian physics where for centuries the apparent equivalence between inertial and gravitational mass was considered a 'coincidence' until Einstein came along and showed they were one in the same thing according to the equivalence principle.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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I think Tononi and his team have made some very useful ……. ……. ……..but it's just part of a much bigger picture involving organization.
Glad you got something of a read out of the article (I’m still only half way through - keep putting it down and coming back to it)
 
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durangodawood

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Ohhh. Interesting. (I had always thought of redshift as a relative thing, relative to a moving-away observer, while the wavelength of light emitted from the radiating object would just be whatever it is relative to the object itself.)
 
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sjastro

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Ohhh. Interesting. (I had always thought of redshift as a relative thing, relative to a moving-away observer, while the wavelength of light emitted from the radiating object would just be whatever it is relative to the object itself.)
You are thinking of Doppler shift, cosmological redshift is a different animal.
Cosmological Redshift | COSMOS
 
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Hans Blaster

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I guess this is what I dont get. Isnt the number of photons per a^3 the energy density? # of photons per volume? Or does each photon also lose energy as it occupies more net space (which is what Im getting from your explanation)?

It's all about how density impacts curvature and evolution of spacetime. It is energy that creates curvature (or its mass equivalent). The energy density of radiation is (#photons*mean_energy)/volume.
 
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Bradskii

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It's all about how density impacts curvature and evolution of spacetime. It is energy that creates curvature (or its mass equivalent). The energy density of radiation is (#photons*mean_energy)/volume.

Are you guys intentionally trying to make me feel dumb?

I think I need to go talk to the people in the flat earth subforum for a while...or maybe a couple of creationists.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Glad you got something of a read out of the article (I’m still only half way through - keep putting it down and coming back to it)
I've been following Tononi's work for a long time...

With regard to the article's comments on panpsychism, I don't think that's a good explanation; it's not testable or falsifiable, it makes no predictions, it doesn't give any insight or understanding into consciousness itself, it doesn't explain the evidence, it raises more questions than it purports to answer, it isn't parsimonious (it introduces a new fundamental entity), and it doesn't cohere with existing knowledge.

It basically side-steps an explanation by making consciousness fundamental and it takes advantage of the ill-defined and subjective nature of consciousness to do this. Just my opinion, of course.
 
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