Mueller Files First Charges

[mark46]

We "started" with the Trump and many of his minions indicated (dozens and dozens of times) that Trump folks never met with any Russians, and that the whole Russian story of trying to interfere is fake news.

I guess the current position is that it doesn't matter how many of his minions spoke to the Russians, negotiated with Russians, and/or committed crimes. It matter not at all that those in the family (does he care about anyone else?) were part of email chains or meetings where it was made clear that Trump functionaries were going to meet with Russians, or had done so. After all, Trump could shoot a lady own 5th Avenue in broad daylight and his people wouldn't care.

Well, maybe, just maybe, a jury might care if Trump folks broke the law. Hey, some Republicans might even be upset even if the law wasn't broken. After all, an impeachable offense doesn't have to be a crime. Trump might fired Cuomy in order to make the Russian thing go away, and allowed his folks to work with the Russians. There may be no crime, or no crime committed by anyone in the Trump family.

The Democratic House in 2018 is likely to consider impeachment. Of course, IMHO, that is foolish. DO we really want Pence to become president? Some of the conservative agenda might actually pass.

 

[mark kennedy]

Papadopoulos will make a fine witness. I'm sure that he has already provided all the emails between him, others in the campaign, in the transition and in the WH.

For criminal charges to be faced with key people in the campaign is unprecedented, certainly in 9 months of Trump being sworn in. One thing is clear, Mueller isn't playing, if you lie he will come after you. Papadopoulos already has plead guilty to lying about contact with Russia, not a good sign for Trump. In April 2016 they were already trying to get the DNC emails that were so damaging to the Clinton campaign.

 

[mark46]

This is all ridiculous fake news. Manafort was awarded the medal of honor today, George Papadopolous won a truth-telling contest, and Robert Mueller isn't even a real person. He's just a Muppet!

I haven't seen or heard about today's tweet. I suspect that by tomorrow, we'll have lots of tweets about the media, Hillary and fake news.

 

[mark kennedy]

George Papadopolous won a truth-telling contest, and Robert Mueller isn't even a real person. He's just a Muppet!

Why don't we get things started...

 

[cow451]

We "started" with the Trump and many of his minions indicated (dozens and dozens of times) that Trump folks never met with any Russians, and that the whole Russian story of trying to interfere is fake news.

I guess the current position is that it doesn't matter how many of his minions spoke to the Russians, negotiated with Russians, and/or committed crimes. It matter not at all that those in the family (does he care about anyone else?) were part of email chains or meetings where it was made clear that Trump functionaries were going to meet with Russians, or had done so. After all, Trump could shoot a lady own 5th Avenue in broad daylight and his people wouldn't care.

Well, maybe, just maybe, a jury might care if Trump folks broke the law. Hey, some Republicans might even be upset even if the law wasn't broken. After all, an impeachable offense doesn't have to be a crime. Trump might fired Cuomy in order to make the Russian thing go away, and allowed his folks to work with the Russians. There may be no crime, or no crime committed by anyone in the Trump family.

The Democratic House in 2018 is likely to consider impeachment. Of course, IMHO, that is foolish. DO we really want Pence to become president? Some of the conservative agenda might actually pass.

None of this matter because.. well... Hillary!

 

[FreeinChrist]

The case and trial will likely be over in the Spring. Of course, there will be appeals.

Trump can indeed pardon whoever he wants whenever he wants (POSSIBLY other than himself). Actually, I was surprised that Obama didn't pardon Hillary for any actions attendant to her actions during his administration.

As an example, Nixon was pardoned by Ford. There was no conviction of Nixon. There was no impeachment. I don't think that there were even any indictments.

I would be surprised if it was over by spring.

related is this:
Investigations of Manafort in New York Are Beyond Trump’s Power to Pardon

In July, President Trump wrote on Twitter that “all agree the U.S. President has the complete power to pardon.”

But for Paul J. Manafort, who surrendered to the F.B.I. on Monday after being indicted on federal criminal charges, Mr. Trump’s power has a limitation of potential significance: a presidential pardon does not apply to charges from state and local authorities.

Although it is not known whether Mr. Manafort will receive or even request a presidential pardon, he also faces scrutiny from authorities in New York whose prosecutions would not be subject to one.

​

 

[mark46]

Lying isn't criminal. Otherwise, very few would be working for the government in DC.

Mueller will come after anyone who lies to the FBI or to him, or to anyone where lying is illegal.

Congress could find folks who lie to them in contempt of Congress.

However, Trump hasn't lied under oath yet. Being incompetent is not illegal. Firing someone who works for you isn't illegal. Even speaking with the Russians before being elected wouldn't prosecuted. Every campaign does indeed do such things. Knowing about so many, many contacts and negotiations with the Russians may or may not be criminal, likely not even if he tacitly allowed such discussions.

Now, in January 2019, these could be IMPEACHABLE offenses, if we really want to have President Pence in office. Of course, the best case may be to impreach Trump and have him stay in office. The Senate likely won't convict.

For criminal charges to be faced with key people in the campaign is unprecedented, certainly in 9 months of Trump being sworn in. One thing is clear, Mueller isn't playing, if you lie he will come after you. Papadopoulos already has plead guilty to lying about contact with Russia, not a good sign for Trump. In April 2016 they were already trying to get the DNC emails that were so damaging to the Clinton campaign.

 

[camille70]

We "started" with the Trump and many of his minions indicated (dozens and dozens of times) that Trump folks never met with any Russians, and that the whole Russian story of trying to interfere is fake news.

I guess the current position is that it doesn't matter how many of his minions spoke to the Russians, negotiated with Russians, and/or committed crimes. It matter not at all that those in the family (does he care about anyone else?) were part of email chains or meetings where it was made clear that Trump functionaries were going to meet with Russians, or had done so. After all, Trump could shoot a lady own 5th Avenue in broad daylight and his people wouldn't care.

Well, maybe, just maybe, a jury might care if Trump folks broke the law. Hey, some Republicans might even be upset even if the law wasn't broken. After all, an impeachable offense doesn't have to be a crime. Trump might fired Cuomy in order to make the Russian thing go away, and allowed his folks to work with the Russians. There may be no crime, or no crime committed by anyone in the Trump family.

The Democratic House in 2018 is likely to consider impeachment. Of course, IMHO, that is foolish. DO we really want Pence to become president? Some of the conservative agenda might actually pass.

I think when it all shakes out Pence is implicated also. He is VP because of Manafort.

 

[camille70]

This is all ridiculous fake news. Manafort was awarded the medal of honor today, George Papadopolous won a truth-telling contest, and Robert Mueller isn't even a real person. He's just a Muppet!

I was trying to figure out who Mueller reminded me of, and it might be a Muppet. Thanks. That was driving me nuts...lol...

 

[PeachyKeane]

I was trying to figure out who Mueller reminded me of, and it might be a Muppet. Thanks. That was driving me nuts...lol...

Yeah man, the blue furry skin? The mouth that opens like a pie chart? The rod sticking out of his other arm? Probably a Jim Henson original.

 

[Allandavid]

“I am not a crook!”..........he was.

“I did not have sex with that woman!”.........he did.

“It’s all Fake News!”................no, it’s not.

 

[mark kennedy]

Lying isn't criminal. Otherwise, very few would be working for the government in DC.

Mueller will come after anyone who lies to the FBI or to him, or to anyone where lying is illegal.

Congress could find folks who lie to them in contempt of Congress.

However, Trump hasn't lied under oath yet. Being incompetent is not illegal. Firing someone who works for you isn't illegal. Even speaking with the Russians before being elected wouldn't prosecuted. Every campaign does indeed do such things. Knowing about so many, many contacts and negotiations with the Russians may or may not be criminal, likely not even if he tacitly allowed such discussions.

Now, in January 2019, these could be IMPEACHABLE offenses, if we really want to have President Pence in office. Of course, the best case may be to impreach Trump and have him stay in office. The Senate likely won't convict.

This isn't about impeachment, at least not yet. This is about foreign agents in the White House campaign being indicted for criminal conspiracy. Trump has been very friendly toward Russia and only signed the sanctions bill because it was never going to be vetoed. I still think this is political and that is no small matter, it only becomes an impeachable offense if Trump is directly involved. Just like Clinton he will eventually be deposed, he should be fine if he doesn't lie. With this President, all bets are off.

 

[wing2000]

This whole thing got started because of a phony dossier which the FBI used to wire tap Manafort.

From The Federalist;

Obama’s Campaign Paid $972,000 To Law Firm That Secretly Paid Fusion GPS In 2016
Since April of 2016, Obama's campaign organization has paid nearly a million dollars to the law firm that funneled money to Fusion GPS to compile a dossier of unverified allegations against Donald Trump.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/29/obamas-campaign-gave-972000-law-firm-funneled-money-fusion-gps/

Mmmmm

Today's indictments had no relation to the infamous dossier.

 

[Go Braves]

No this man went in to sit down and talk to Tucker, he checked into him. I trust Tucker' s judgement.

Just to be clear, you're talking about trusting the judgement of this Tucker?

 

[camille70]

Just for kicks and giggles...


Carter Page reacts to indictments, Papadopoulos plea

 

[withwonderingawe]

Just to be clear, you're talking about trusting the judgement of this Tucker?

Take a look at tonight

'We're Not Intimidated': Tucker Responds to Legal Threat From Podesta Lawyer

 

[Vylo]

Take a look at tonight

'We're Not Intimidated': Tucker Responds to Legal Threat From Podesta Lawyer

So he feels vindicated when the indictments nothing showed about Clinton or Podesta?

 

[withwonderingawe]

This is interesting, it's from the Daily Caller

CNN’s Undisclosed Ties To Fusion GPS
CNN’s Undisclosed Ties To Fusion GPS

 

[Go Braves]

Take a look at tonight

'We're Not Intimidated': Tucker Responds to Legal Threat From Podesta Lawyer

I haven't watched any comedy shows in a while. Thanks for that.

 

[redleghunter]

We "started" with the Trump and many of his minions indicated (dozens and dozens of times) that Trump folks never met with any Russians, and that the whole Russian story of trying to interfer

Actually the special counsel was commissioned by the Justice dept to investigate Russian collusion in the 2016 election cycle.

Of the 12 charges against Manafort how many dealt with Russian collusion in the 2016 election? Apparently none.

Is Manafort a tax evading (illegal) money laundering (illegal) international lobbyist (not illegal) influence peddler (perhaps not illegal)? Probably he is and we will find out as his trial progresses (he and his minion pleaded not guilty).

Yet all of the charges deal with his prior employment before coming to the Trump campaign. So those who say "not related to Trump" are correct. There's more connection to John Podesta and his brother with regards to the indictment. Podesta group had dealings with Manafort when he was influence peddling and laundering money (allegedly) with Russia, the Ukraine et. al.

Now this is the question I want liberals to answer.

How dearly do liberals hold to the 4th Amendment?

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides that "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Fourth Amendment

This is what happened: special counsel given scope to investigate Trump campaign collusion with Russia with regards to 2016 election.

Special counsel raids the home of Manafort via forced entry, his wife in PJs as FBI picks the front door lock. Home raided of perhaps a corrupt man with no prior convictions and the evidence obtained has nothing to do with Manafort's tenure under Trump campaign. He now faces charges the Special counsel did not set out to investigate.

FBI raided Paul Manafort home as part of Russia probe - CNNPolitics


Liberals are you comfortable with an unelected arm of the Justice dept appointed by one unelected or Senate confirmed individual with such powers to violate private citizen's 4th Amendment rights?