Mudskippers - live transitionals?

[MrGoodBytes]

I''m curious - could the humble mudskipper be used as a real-life example of a transitional form? It seems perfect to me, water-to-land, fish/amphibian, and all that rolled into one package.

Thoughts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskipper

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I've always thought of it as such.

 

[PKJ]

Mudskippers are so cool!

 

[mr24shoe]

It's still a mudskipper.
;-)

 

[Pesto]

I think it's a bit misleading to call them a transitional species. Transitional implies that they are an evolutionary link between two other species, and since they are a modern species, that can't be the case.

A more accurate statement would be that a transitional species between water dwelling and land dwelling animals and the mudskipper inhabit the same niche, so mudskippers are a good example of the kind of creature that first made the transition on to land.

Then again, maybe that's all semantics.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

I think it's a bit misleading to call them a transitional species. Transitional implies that they are an evolutionary link between two other species, and since they are a modern species, that can't be the case.

A more accurate statement would be that a transitional species between water dwelling and land dwelling animals and the mudskipper inhabit the same niche, so mudskippers are a good example of the kind of creature that first made the transition on to land.

Then again, maybe that's all semantics.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. So, do you think it could be used against the no-transitional species PRATT, if one were to include a disclaimer like yours?

 

[Split Rock]

I think it's a bit misleading to call them a transitional species. Transitional implies that they are an evolutionary link between two other species, and since they are a modern species, that can't be the case.

A more accurate statement would be that a transitional species between water dwelling and land dwelling animals and the mudskipper inhabit the same niche, so mudskippers are a good example of the kind of creature that first made the transition on to land.

Then again, maybe that's all semantics.

It might be best to call them an "Intermediate," rather than a "Transitional."

 

[[serious]]

They are still of the "vertebrate kind"

And don't go finding other transitional forms, 'cause they will still be of the animal kind, or maybe the eukaryote kind. At any rate, any transitional fossil still fits in with some definition of kind and hence supports YEC.

 

[Victoriahume]

Hi,

Have you heard of coeleocanths? they are thought to be closely related to the first fish species to come out of the ocean. They were once thought extinct and only seen in the fossil record but have since been discovered living in deep water (i know - doesn't sound very transitional). They're a type of lobe fin fish (which means instead of having fins they have lobes with intricate bone structures that somewhat resemble primitive hands or appendages). They use these lobes to propel themselves around on the bottom of the ocean floor.

So, if you want to research transitional species or the evolution of land animals try looking into lobe fin fish or the coeleocanth (i really hope i spelt that right!)

Hope this helps x

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Hi,

Have you heard of coeleocanths? they are thought to be closely related to the first fish species to come out of the ocean. They were once thought extinct and only seen in the fossil record but have since been discovered living in deep water (i know - doesn't sound very transitional). They're a type of lobe fin fish (which means instead of having fins they have lobes with intricate bone structures that somewhat resemble primitive hands or appendages). They use these lobes to propel themselves around on the bottom of the ocean floor.

So, if you want to research transitional species or the evolution of land animals try looking into lobe fin fish or the coeleocanth (i really hope i spelt that right!)

Hope this helps x

Coelacanths are fascinating indeed - I think the best part of its discovery is that the Madagascan people used their scales for roughing up bicycle tires in order to patch them, long before any scientist knew that they were still alive.

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

 

[A4C]

Do we have any evidence of non mud skipping mudskippers?

 

[Ioinc]

Do we have any evidence of non mud skipping mudskippers?

yes, but the have a different name and look slightly different

some don't skip on mud they swim... we call them fish.
Some are amphibians and are less fish like.... they spend more time out of water.


You see if they looked like muskippers and actually did skip mud... we would call them mudskippers.... which we do.

 

[Gracchus]

The first vertebrates that made the transition to land were not really well adapted to the terrestrial environment, but they had little or no non-vertebrate competition in that environment.

Any modern species would have to compete with much better adapted species for the same resources, and would have to survive terrestrial predators as well.

Only environmental and geologic changes could provide new niches to exploit. So a reasonable person would not expect mud-skippers to make a full transition to a terrestrial life style.

 

[A4C]

So I suppose the fish just grew legs and then they found something to do with them -cool. I wonder why God didn't think of that

 

[Oonna]

Mudskippers are so cute!!!!

 

[Gracchus]

So I suppose the fish just grew legs and then they found something to do with them -cool. I wonder why God didn't think of that

I think it more likely, those with increased musculoskeletal support in their fins found it easier to do what they were already doing. They were bottom feeders, and wasted less energy resting and moving on the bottom than they did continually waving their fins.

 

[Ondoher]

So I suppose the fish just grew legs and then they found something to do with them -cool. I wonder why God didn't think of that

In another thread you were shown this:

Your strawman of "just grew legs and then they found something to do with them" doesn't match the data we actually find in the fossil record. The fossil record shows a gradual transition to fins that are more and more capable of bearing weight and being used for terrestrial mobility. Until at the end we have a leg which is no longer a fin at all.

In shallow water, shoreline environments these adaptations would be advantageous.

 

[A4C]

So we have some who say evolution is not purpose attributable and we have some who say that mutations just happen out of chance with no purpose involved -interesting range of concepts there

 

[A4C]

Wow from feet to fins and back to feet again
That sounds like a round about way to get nowhere
Pity there are no fossils to support the idea though isn't it?

 

[Split Rock]

Do we have any evidence of non mud skipping mudskippers?

Here you go.. a mudskipper with normal fish fins (a Round Goby): http://images.google.com/imgres?img...um=10&hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2005-25,RNWE:en

Here is an interesting article on mudskippers: http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/0902/0902_feature.html