MP, ROCOR and OCA~Whats' the difference?

[vlinder]

To Life Immortal

Hello. I would like to visit a Russian Church that Father James mentioned during Divine Liturgy. It is St. Michael Russian Orthodox MP. What is MP? What is the difference between MP, ROCOR and OCA? It is like liberal, conservative and reform? There is another Russian church I visited long ago downtown, St Nicholas' . It is OCA. I dont know what that means, but they have an awesome choir!

Peace and Long LIfe
Vlinder/Balafenn

 

[Reader Nilus]

They are the same, except for the Russian revolution caused havoc with the Russian Church outside of Russia. ROCOR and the Moscow Patriarchate (MP) are in the process of healing their rift, which will also heal the OCA and ROCOR. It is a long history, but all believe the same things.
Jeff the Finn

 

[ExOrienteLux]

Oh, and just so you know:

MP= Moscow Patriarchate
ROCOR= Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia
OCA= Orthodox Church in America

+IC XC NIKA+
Josh.

 

[vanshan]

I agree with Jeff that they are essentially the same. If you had to categorize them by how conservative they are, from my experience ROCOR parishes are the most conservative. The OCA is probably the least convervative, at least by Orthodox standards.

ROCOR = Russian Church Outside Russia
OCA = Orthdox Church of America
MP = Moscow Patriarchate

They each have a lengthy historical background, which would take quite a few pages to explain, but all are canonical parts of the Church, although ROCOR is not a part of SCOBA (Standing Conference of Orthodox Bishops of America).

I have attended OCA and ROCOR parishes and like them both. A ROCOR friend of mind described ROCOR as the dark beer of Orthodoxy, while more modern groups like the OCA, Antiochians, and Greeks are like Orthodoxy light. I hope that doesn't offend anyone, but having attending all the above I definitely see his point. All are of course canonical, but they do have differnet "flavors." Not that we should pick and choose which we like as some groups do.

Basil

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Hey Vlinder,

I started out with a lengthy explanation of the Churces, but then whn I posted a saw that others beat me to it and actually did a better job. So... I'll shorten this a bit..

The OCA gained it's autocephaly from the MP in the 1970s. This means that the OCA no longer answers to the MP for it is now self-governed having its own head in the Metropolitan (like the Patriarch.. but not so old). The OCA does, however, still respect the MP as her Mother Church.
For a more complete history, there is an excellent online pamphlet of the history of the Orthodox Church in America from 1794-1994 (notice it is missing 10 years... but the info still pretty much applies to today). I REALLY suggest you read this even though it is a bit long. All of it is fascinating. It is divided up into chapters, so I jsut read it in parts, day by day and learned so much! http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Church-Introduction/North-America-1794-1994/index.htm (Realy.. read this!!)

One more thing. All of this jurisdictional stuff is very interesting (and sad/pitiful/frusterating at times), but don't get hung up on it. There was a time when I did. Finally I had to say, look, let the bishops deal with all of this. I personally don't care if someone is ROCOR, MP, OCA, GOA or any other part of the Orthodox Alphabet soup. As long as they are Orthodox, they are my Brothers and Sisters, and everything else is a detail that only adds to the beautiful diversity of our Church (I like Vanshan's Beer analogy lol).

Unity needs to be organic and for that to take place, it needs to start from the bottom up (the layity/clergy to the Bishops) not the other way around. It doesn't matter how many agreements the Bishops sign; if the people don't want unity, it won't happen. Unity is not a piece of paper, but an action in Love and Prayer. If we start this first, the Bishops will ineveitably follow (although it may take a generations or two). This is what has lead the MP and the ROCOR to finally sit down and have serious talks about reunification. This is a delicate issue (with a lot of hurt feelings and distrust on both sides) and they need our prayers so they can humble themselves and embrace eachother once again.

God bless,

servant of God, John

 

[Orthosdoxa]

All of this jurisdictional stuff is very interesting (and sad/pitiful/frusterating at times), but don't get hung up on it.

All of those groups are fully Orthodox. I've never been geographically anywhere near an MP parish, but I have worshipped at both ROCOR and OCA services, and it was all about the same, because Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy.


LK

 

[xenia]

A ROCOR friend of mind described ROCOR as the dark beer of Orthodoxy,

What a terrific comparison!

Xenia

 

[ExOrienteLux]

A ROCOR friend of mind described ROCOR as the dark beer of Orthodoxy,

So ROCOR is the Guinness of Orthodoxy? Is Outrage! Was there being Guinness in 19th-Century Russia? I think no! Is outrage, sir, is outrage.

 

[Michael G]

They are the same, except for the Russian revolution caused havoc with the Russian Church outside of Russia. ROCOR and the Moscow Patriarchate (MP) are in the process of healing their rift, which will also heal the OCA and ROCOR. It is a long history, but all believe the same things.
Jeff the Finn

Yes, to make an even stronger argument for that, His Emminence Archbishop Kyrill of the OCA was once a ROCOR Bishop AND I doubt any OCA priest or bishop would try to argue against St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco being a saint.

 

[Reader Nilus]

In my diocese, the Diocese of the West of the OCA, we never were in schism with ROCOR, in fact my priest served a panikhida for St John of San Francisco with Met ANTHONY of the ROCOR Diocese of San Francisco before he was glorified. We also have a monastery with St John of San Francisco as their patron Saint.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Nikolas222]

We Greeks have no such conflict

Nite
-Nick

 

[Marjorie]

We Greeks have no such conflict

Nite
-Nick

Tell that to the "True Orthodox Church of Greece."

In IC XC,
Marjorie

 

[Nickolai]

or the GOC (Genuine Orthodox Church)

 

[Nickolai]

I like ROCOR. But I also like the OCA very much. I can say that I would be very happy in either an Oca parish with a traditional priest (Which I go to now), or a ROCOR church. I like being traditional, you know, headscarf wearin' women, no pews, Slavonic every once in a while with the hymns kind of Orthodoxy.

Not to ridicule, but some OCA parishes make me mad. like the ones that practice general confession as the rule rather than the exception. or the preist that just got out of seminary and srinkwrapped a consecrated lamb so that he could drive it across town in his car to take it to another Church.

But I am not however, all about legalist adherance to canons like the ROAC and the GOC. I pray for those groups all the time and hopefully they will one day be in communion again.

 

[gzt]

Shrink-wrapped? Oh my.

But yeah, I'm totally up for the head-scarfin' pewless Slavonic stuff, it's hot, man. The new [as in, ordained three weeks ago] priest at my OCA church seems to be all over that too, so one must be careful about generalizing.

 

[Michael G]

I like ROCOR. But I also like the OCA very much. I can say that I would be very happy in either an Oca parish with a traditional priest (Which I go to now), or a ROCOR church. I like being traditional, you know, headscarf wearin' women, no pews, Slavonic every once in a while with the hymns kind of Orthodoxy.

Not to ridicule, but some OCA parishes make me mad. like the ones that practice general confession as the rule rather than the exception. or the preist that just got out of seminary and srinkwrapped a consecrated lamb so that he could drive it across town in his car to take it to another Church.

But I am not however, all about legalist adherance to canons like the ROAC and the GOC. I pray for those groups all the time and hopefully they will one day be in communion again.

Pls tell the Hieromonk Patrick that Michael Goltz said "hi!" Do you have his new email being that his old account no longer works?

 

[ufonium2]

We Greeks have no such conflict

The Greek church in my hometown split over whether or not to go New Calendar.

 

[Nickolai]

Pls tell the Hieromonk Patrick that Michael Goltz said "hi!" Do you have his new email being that his old account no longer works?

I will, I don't have his email right now but I'll get it for you.

 

[Nickolai]

Shrink-wrapped? Oh my.

But yeah, I'm totally up for the head-scarfin' pewless Slavonic stuff, it's hot, man. The new [as in, ordained three weeks ago] priest at my OCA church seems to be all over that too, so one must be careful about generalizing.

Oh yeah. The OCA has all of the spectrum. Some super traditional, some mopre modern, and some in between. most of it depends on the priest and which seminary they came from.

 

[vanshan]

I'm sure Jordanville is one of the more conservative seminaries, is there a seminary with the reputation for being "liberal," if you can use such as word to describe it.

Basil