[moved] Quest to understand and comprehend the trinity...?

[Neogaia777]

Quest to understand and comprehend the trinity...?

Let's start out with Jesus is greater than any angel, yet less than the Father...

And proceed from there in finding out who Jesus is...

It is my belief that Jesus is God, the Son... And, I'll post more on this later on, I just wanted to get this conversation started for now...

Also, that Jesus, was there with the Father and Holy Spirit, before anything was created...

Also that, and how, Jesus can be YHWH...

I'll be back with some scripture from the gospel of John, in a few days...



Comments...?

Peace,

God Bless!

 

[bozzy]

Just a thought: If Jesus allowed Himself to be worshipped, He must be Yahweh right? Because only God (Yahweh) is to be worshipped, or else we have idolatry going on, and to worship Jesus is NOT idolatry. (See Luke 24:52, Matthew 2:11, John 12:13, Matthew 14:33)

When it comes to the Trinity, well, of course this is what the bible teaches. Even in Genesis 1 we see that God says "God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."" (verse 26). Notice God says "let Us make man in Our image". God reveals Himself as "Us" in the very beginning.

I remember hearing a story, which was something like this:
Some theologians were talking about the Trinity, and maybe making it very difficult and hard to grasp. Trying to make sense of it all. Then along came "Silly Billy". He simply told them: "It's very simple: One in Three, Three in One, and One of Them died for me."

Well, I think "Silly Billy" got it. God bless you! =)

 

[Tolworth John]

John 1 teaches that Jesus is God that he made everything and that he is our saviour. Yet it is also clear tat there is God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
While the trinity is not mentioned it is there in scripture.

 

[Neogaia777]

Just a thought: If Jesus allowed Himself to be worshipped, He must be Yahweh right? Because only God (Yahweh) is to be worshipped, or else we have idolatry going on, and to worship Jesus is NOT idolatry. (See Luke 24:52, Matthew 2:11, John 12:13, Matthew 14:33)

When it comes to the Trinity, well, of course this is what the bible teaches. Even in Genesis 1 we see that God says "God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."" (verse 26). Notice God says "let Us make man in Our image". God reveals Himself as "Us" in the very beginning.

I remember hearing a story, which was something like this:
Some theologians were talking about the Trinity, and maybe making it very difficult and hard to grasp. Trying to make sense of it all. Then along came "Silly Billy". He simply told them: "It's very simple: One in Three, Three in One, and One of Them died for me."

Well, I think "Silly Billy" got it. God bless you! =)

Jesus says in John, "glorify your name, oh God, the name you have given me..." And talks about his hands being literally the Father's hands, says Moses when writing about YHWH, was writing about him, Jesus, ect, ect..

Like I said in the OP, I'll be back with many scriptures on this later...

Peace,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

John 1 teaches that Jesus is God that he made everything and that he is our saviour. Yet it is also clear tat there is God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
While the trinity is not mentioned it is there in scripture.

Yes, I do believe in the trinity, and am trying to explore and hope to understand it to the point of being able to explain it...

That's the purpose of this thread...

God Bless!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Quest to understand and comprehend the trinity...?

Let's start out with Jesus is greater than any angel, yet less than the Father...

And proceed from there in finding out who Jesus is...

It is my belief that Jesus is God, the Son... And, I'll post more on this later on, I just wanted to get this conversation started for now...

Also, that Jesus, was there with the Father and Holy Spirit, before anything was created...

Also that, and how, Jesus can be YHWH...

I'll be back with some scripture from the gospel of John, in a few days...



Comments...?

Peace,

God Bless!

Someone on a other website quoted:
Anyone who claims to fully understand Trinity shows how little they know of the subject .
I can assure you, in nine years of much discussing concerning g this subject I found not one person, including seasoned ministers who could answer every question/ bible verse placed before them on the subject.
To fully understand Trinity you would have to accept every verse in the bible concerning the subject, NOT be selective as to what you accept. Then put them all together and come to a conclusion. As I said, in my experience no one could do that.
So what is my conclusion? Some things you are not meant to rationalise/ fully comprehend.
In my view it is more worthwhile to concentrate on what, through the Holy Spirit may be fully revealed to you, not what will not be

 

[Neogaia777]

Someone on a other website quoted:
Anyone who claims to fully understand Trinity shows how little they know of the subject .
I can assure you, in nine years of much discussing concerning g this subject I found not one person, including seasoned ministers who could answer every question/ bible verse placed before them on the subject.
To fully understand Trinity you would have to accept every verse in the bible concerning the subject, NOT be selective as to what you accept. Then put them all together and come to a conclusion. As I said, in my experience no one could do that.
So what is my conclusion? Some things you are not meant to rationalise/ fully comprehend.
In my view it is more worthwhile to concentrate on what, through the Holy Spirit may be fully revealed to you, not what will not be

Got verses that seem to present difficulty in understanding the trinity, I don't run into any problems anymore with it...

Before the beginning was the triune God, three that were one, that are called the "one and only true God"...

In before the beginning, they were equal, and the same, until they began creating, then there "might" have come in, differences...

In the Beginning in Hebrew, can also mean, "Behold, a/the cross"...

They cannot even exist apart from each other...

YHWH is the name of this triune God, Elohim is his/their title, Elohim means "God"... We do not yet know how to define his/their personal name, the tetragrammatton... YHWH is the name of this three in one God...

The Son is the and any manifestation of this God...

The Son's name is YHWH, the Father's name is YHWH, and the Holy Spirits name is YHWH...

In the OT, YHWH is, the Son in ANY manifestation of him/them, including any voice or words from him...

If the Son lost any glory after creation, he got it all back after the cross... "If"...

I'll be back with more later, I need some time to find the Scriptures I need...

God Bless!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Got verses that seem to present difficulty in understanding the trinity, I don't run into any problems anymore with it...

Before the beginning was the triune God, three that were one, that are called the "one and only true God"...

In before the beginning, they were equal, and the same, until they began creating, then there "might" have come in, differences...

In the Beginning in Hebrew, can also mean, "Behold, a/the cross"...

They cannot even exist apart from each other...

YHWH is the name of this triune God, Elohim is his/their title, Elohim means "God"... We do not yet know how to define his/their personal name, the tetragrammatton... YHWH is the name of this three in one God...

The Son is the and any manifestation of this God...

The Son's name is YHWH, the Father's name is YHWH, and the Holy Spirits name is YHWH...

In the OT, YHWH is, the Son in ANY manifestation of him/them, including any voice or words from him...

If the Son lost any glory after creation, he got it all back after the cross... "If"...

I'll be back with more later, I need some time to find the Scriptures I need...

God Bless!

I can't discuss the subject with you as I received a warning for writing a post stating the Father is the only true God and greater than the Son.
However, if you have a full understanding of the subject I would be surprised at your need to look up bible verses, and question why you started a thread seeking better understanding of the subject
I would also suggest, starting a debate on Trinity is pointless in the Christian section, as only one side of the debate can be aired, therefore debate is impossible isn't it

 

[Neogaia777]

The Holy Spirit is of/from the Father and is like the Father and the Son, which is or can be, in us...

The Holy Spirit of truth which the world cannot contain, which is the Helper to be with us forever sent from the by Christ to us, after Christ's death and resurrection... To lead us into all truth...

The H.S. does not speak or use words like the Son does, it is more of a welling up from within, a kind of feeling, or an instinct, though that's probably not a totally accurate term, cause it's not like an emotion, but, it's the closest term I know of...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I can't discuss the subject with you as I received a warning for writing a post stating the Father is the only true God and greater than the Son.
However, if you have a full understanding of the subject I would be surprised at your need to look up bible verses, and question why you started a thread seeking better understanding of the subject
I would also suggest, starting a debate on Trinity is pointless in the Christian section, as only one side of the debate can be aired, therefore debate is impossible isn't it

Yeah, I saw they deleted some of our posts in that thread, which irritated me...

Is Jesus, has he always been less than the Father, from before the beginning, or was he at one point in time, but, maybe, not after creation And either way that he is now, after his resurrection and ascension...

You can't debate whether or not Jesus is equal to the Father, cause there is a scripture that says the Father is greater than him (Jesus), and they won't allow you to debate that...?

Doesn't one creed say one thing about this, and another the opposite...? Or, am I wrong about that...?

I think it's fine to debate it, as long as you know that Christ was there with the Father before creation, before time... And discuss whether he was then, or afterward, or now...

Why can't we discuss it...?

God Bless!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Yeah, I saw they deleted some of our posts in that thread, which irritated me...

Is Jesus, has he always been less than the Father, from before the beginning, or was he at one point in time, but, maybe, not after creation And either way that he is now, after his resurrection and ascension...

You can't debate whether or not Jesus is equal to the Father, cause there is a scripture that says the Father is greater than him (Jesus), and they won't allow you to debate that...?

Doesn't one creed say one thing about this, and another the opposite...? Or, am I wrong about that...?

I think it's fine to debate it, as long as you know that Christ was there with the Father before creation, before time... And discuss whether he was then, or afterward, or now...

Why can't we discuss it...?

God Bless!

If you want to discuss opposing ideas of Trinity you must start a thread in the section you are allowed to discuss opposing ideas of it.
I repeat, in the Christian section only one belief is allowed, therefore debate is rendered impossible

 

[Neogaia777]

If you want to discuss opposing ideas of Trinity you must start a thread in the section you are allowed to discuss opposing ideas of it.
I repeat, in the Christian section only one belief is allowed, therefore debate is rendered impossible

Can you tell me what sections...? Please...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

You can believe that when Jesus said that the Father was greater than him, it either meant as a man, or as our God in the OT possibly, but, he also said he was "going to" the Father, probably to share in his greatness in a type of relationship (glory) they each had, before anything (was made/created)...

God Bless!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Can you tell me what sections...? Please...?

God Bless!

You have to debate it in:
Christianity and world religions, or, debate non Christian religions

As I got a warning simply for repeating Christ's words in John 17:3 I am disgusted with that. I won't debate this anymore, and I don't think I want to be part of a website where repeating the plain words of Christ's results in warnings
And if you stand on the plain words of Christ you need to do so in the non Christian section
It's ridiculous

 

[Neogaia777]

"When once you have lifted up the Son of Man (Son of Man, Jesus, God in the flesh, his earthly life and living here) (when once you have lifted that one up, to the Level of God), you will know that I, (Jesus, Son of Man) am "HE", (God)...

That's what I'm trying to do here...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

You have to debate it in:
Christianity and world religions, or, debate non Christian religions

As I got a warning simply for repeating Christ's words in John 17:3 I am disgusted with that. I won't debate this anymore, and I don't think I want to be part of a website where repeating the plain words of Christ's results in warnings
And if you stand on the plain words of Christ you need to do so in the non Christian section
It's ridiculous

I agree, but, I may request it be moved there... But a thread on understanding the trinity, might not be exactly for the other sections, I think it belongs here, but, whatever...

God Bless!

 

[stuart lawrence]

I agree, but, I may request it be moved there... But a thread on understanding the trinity, might not be exactly for the other sections, I think it belongs here, but, whatever...

God Bless!

I'm going to once again repeat to you. Trinitarians ministers, one who had been a minister for fifty years could not answer every scripture placed before them concerning trinity, neither can i, you or anyone else on these websites.
These discussions are never about better understanding the subject, simply for people to state what they personally think they know of the subject.
I agree with the statement previously posted.
Those who claim to fully understand Trinity show their lack of knowledge concerning the subject

 

[dysert]

Is Jesus, has he always been less than the Father, from before the beginning, or was he at one point in time, but, maybe, not after creation And either way that he is now, after his resurrection and ascension...

I rather doubt you'll be able to comprehend the Trinity no matter how much you study or discuss it. It doesn't fit with our "logical" brains how there can be three co-equal Beings that have separate functions but are really the same.

And for starters, Jesus has never been less than the Father. They (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) are equal persons in the Trinity - they just have different roles.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I would add this. The subject of Trinity has been no big deal in any church I have belonged to. Never heard one sermon on it in fifty years of going to church.
Just got taught the Father/ God sent the Son to die for our sins, and the Holy Spirit is Gods power on earth
That's it!!!

 

[stuart lawrence]

But I appreciate many on the internet love debating it