Most Important Poll Ever !

[mrhappy3]

Back To Basics !

 

[Faulty]

Eph 2 tells us it is by grace through faith in Jesus that we are saved, but I don't see that as an option.

 

[Always in His Presence]

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Not on poll - faith and grace

 

[Yitzchak]

The thing that makes this question so difficult is that salvation is both a one time specific event and it is also a process of enduring to the end.

It is like asking if a corn plant is really corn. It is corn when it is first planted , it is corn when it is half way grown , and it is corn when it is full grown, It is also corn when it is harvested and served a dish at the supper table.

Our disadvantage is applying "greek" concepts of logical thinking and applying it to hebrew concepts like salvation.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Eph 2 tells us it is by grace through faith in Jesus that we are saved, but I don't see that as an option.

Agreed

I guess the OP either doesn't know about grace through faith or doesn't believe in it. What's the point in having the "most important poll" when you don't give the real true answer as an option?

Just kidding Mrhappy, but I really wish you would've included grace through faith.

 

[nephilimiyr]

The thing that makes this question so difficult is that salvation is both a one time specific event and it is also a process of enduring to the end.

It is like asking if a corn plant is really corn. It is corn when it is first planted , it is corn when it is half way grown , and it is corn when it is full grown, It is also corn when it is harvested and served a dish at the supper table.

Our disadvantage is applying "greek" concepts of logical thinking and applying it to hebrew concepts like salvation.

The OP question didn't ask about salvation, just a simple, how are we saved?

 

[nephilimiyr]

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Good answer, and I agree, but when boiled down this still all comes down to faith through grace as one can confess belief in Christ and what He did but without grace it means nothing.

 

[talitha]

by grace through faith......

 

[mrhappy3]

OK, what does EPHESIANS 2v8-10 actually mean.

some people I know interpret it to mean that the GIFT of GOD is the GRACE aspect, rather than the FAITH aspect.

which is it to be...or is it both ?

 

[nephilimiyr]

OK, what does EPHESIANS 2v8-10 actually mean.

some people I know interpret it to mean that the GIFT of GOD is the GRACE aspect, rather than the FAITH aspect.

which is it to be...or is it both ?

I believe it's both. Verse 8 I believe clearly says that grace is the gift of God, but if you don't see Paul also saying that faith is also a gift from God I believe there are other verses where this is revealed.

If you go to Matthew 16 you see where Jesus asks his disciples who they thought He was. Peter boldly proclaims that He is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus then says this:
Matthew 16:17, Jesus replied, blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
This shows me that faith is just as much a gift as anything else God gives us.

Also, when you read Ephesians 6 you read about putting on the armor of God.
Ephesians 6:16, In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
This shield of faith is part of God's armor, given to us so that we use it appropriately.

Those are just a couple where I believe it shows that faith is a gift from God but here is perhaps the best verse where I think it puts this question to rest.
Romans 12:3, For by the grace given me I say to everyone of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.
So we see with this verse that God has given each of us a measure of faith. And one of the reasons why we should be humbled by the measure of faith we have is because it is a gift. We didn't come to a belief in Jesus Christ and believe who He is and what He did out of our own ability to think and reason things out.

And again, if we are not given a measure of faith to believe, God's grace to us means nothing. Likewise, if we are given a measure of faith but there is no grace extended it also means nothing. The two, grace and faith, have to work hand in hand. You have to have both in order for either of these two gifts to mean anything and benefit you.

 

[Yitzchak]

...

 

[Eardil]

Jesus died to pay for our sins<=grace. The way to reach salvation is by accepting it (through faith) but salvation is already there since the cross.

 

[Svt4Him]

Interesting twist if I may. Salvation in the OT is the same as in the New is it not? In the OT it was by grace, through faith, only their faith was not in Jesus, but a type of Jesus, which makes our salvation different how?

 

[Eardil]

Interesting twist if I may. Salvation in the OT is the same as in the New is it not? In the OT it was by grace, through faith, only their faith was not in Jesus, but a type of Jesus, which makes our salvation different how?

At least the way I see it, salvation transcends time. Jesus always has been, not because he was BEFORE us, but because He's ABOVE us if I may speak of dimensions. Salvation is there since the cross, but the cross has a deeper spiritual meaning, so I don't mean since 2000 years ago. The sacrifice that He did pours through history.
Salvation is not different, what is different is the way we see it and the way we get to it. The NT speaks of the new pact, where salvation is given, is a gift. So the salvation we are able to speak of is the one we experiment, and that one is from Grace.
Of course this is my opinion, and I'm here to learn about others so let me hear your thoughts about this. And I'm sorry if I'm being to vague.

 

[Svt4Him]

No need to be sorry, it's something I'm exploring as well.

In the NT we are told that those of the OT were not the same. John the Baptist was greatest of the OT but would still be least in the NT. Salvation involved putting your faith in God as you put your sins on a goat or made sacrifices. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, so we don't need to go back year by year and it's available to all, not just Jews. Why the difference in John the Baptist vs now I don't know.

 

[Eardil]

Salvation is not putting your faith in God (always remember this is what I understand) but to accept the sacrifice. Faith in God aids us in many ways, but it is involved in salvation just because we have to believe that Jesus died for our sins and came back from the dead.
So the actual difference lies in the way we can achieve salvation. Before, the jews needed to follow the law so the could keep living. Now we not only do not need the law to live our lives in victory, we've been promised eternal life by doing nothing but accepting Him. That's quite a deal. But I'm sure you know it XD.
I've understood that the reason for this is that we can be more close to Him, we can know Jesus in some ways we couldn't if we were bound to Him by quilt and not love.
Why we have such luck? Pretty good question, but I think He's saving that answer for the time we see him face to face.

 

[imperfectchristian]

Saved from the wrath to come: faith in Jesus substitution sacrifice

Saved as in reconciled to God: Acceptance of God's gift of reconciliation through His Son

Saved to an eternal heaven from death and Hell: being Born again by the Spirit (from above) by asking for and receiving the new life (AKA living water) from Jesus.

All are different perspectives on faith and grace.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Perhaps we need to discuss what salvation is because the way I understand it it means more than just becoming saved.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Saved from the wrath to come: faith in Jesus substitution sacrifice

Saved as in reconciled to God: Acceptance of God's gift of reconciliation through His Son

Saved to an eternal heaven from death and Hell: being Born again by the Spirit (from above) by asking for and receiving the new life (AKA living water) from Jesus.

All are different perspectives on faith and grace.

And all are perspectives on salvation.