Mormons

[draper]

I'd just like to know, pretty much:

What they believe, as far as Jesus, God, etc goes.

The differences between their's and Christians beliefs.

You know, just things along those lines.

 

[twhite982]

I'd just like to know, pretty much:

What they believe, as far as Jesus, God, etc goes.

The differences between their's and Christians beliefs.

You know, just things along those lines.

The articles of faith are a good start:

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
JOSEPH SMITH.

TW

 

[Lynn73]

Might want to check out this site:

http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Foundation/fbcmormonism.htm

 

[twhite982]

Might want to check out this site:

http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Foundation/fbcmormonism.htm

If you want to understand what we believe I'd suggest going to LDS scripture which lays down our beliefs. Going to second hand sources, i.e. the middle-man never works out too well and in this link its obvious the purpose is to tear down the LDS church. They make alot of false assumptions ecspecially on placing anything said by anyone in the church as our doctrine.

I posted our 13 articles of faith, which are part of our scripture. Most things outside of the scriptures are not doctrine. Some may be true others just opinion, but as far as being binding upon the church they don't have the same authority as scripture. We believe in common consent in regards to our doctrines of the church as a whole.

TW

 

[Lynn73]

The point isn't to tear down the Mormon church, I don't think. The point is to find out the truth; is it it true Christianity? I also have a good book on the subject entitled MORMONISM, MAMA, & ME by Thelma "Granny" Greer. She has photocopies of Mormon documents and quotes by Brigham Young and Joseph Smith.

Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol 6 April 1844

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! This is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in it's orbit, and who upholds all the worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible,--I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form--like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man;

Also,
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted (prepared) a plan to create the world and people it.

Brigham Young, J of D, vol 7

No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are--I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys fo that kingdom for the last dispensation--the keys to rule in the spirit world; and so on.

These are just as few examples.

The woman who wrote the book was raised from a child as a Mormon. She knows their beliefs and what she's been taught. Today, she is a born again Christian and has come out of Mormonism realizing it isn't compatible with true biblical Christianity. It's a good book. I recommend it to anyone thinking about Mormonism.

P.S. How do you determine which scripture is translated correctly? You don't believe that God was able to see that we have a correct translation?

 

[twhite982]

The woman who wrote the book was raised from a child as a Mormon. She knows their beliefs and what she's been taught. Today, she is a born again Christian and has come out of Mormonism realizing it isn't compatible with true biblical Christianity. It's a good book. I recommend it to anyone thinking about Mormonism.

P.S. How do you determine which scripture is translated correctly? You don't believe that God was able to see that we have a correct translation?

Again read post #4. Just because someone was raised in the church doesn't give them the right to dictate the doctrine of the church, myself included.

The question was asked what do the LDS believe. I posted LDS scripture in response to the question. You would rather have this person take someone else's word for what we believe rather than going to scripture.

TW

 

[Lynn73]

This person need to look at all sides of the issue if they're contemplating becoming a Mormon. If you don't believe the statements made by the founders of Mormonism, just say so.

 

[twhite982]

This person need to look at all sides of the issue if they're contemplating becoming a Mormon. If you don't believe the statements made by the founders of Mormonism, just say so.

Both sides about what?????

He didn't aks for a debate he asked about what the LDS believe. You're trying to show this person what I believe as an LDS. Let the scripture stand on its own and if there is debate about the content, so be it.

TW

 

[solar_mirth]

ok, so here are some problems with your scriptures.

1) the "jews" in america were not semitic like all jews are.
2) they supposedly used a system of coinage based upon their supply of barley. barley did not exist in america until the europeans brought it over.
3) they used horses in war. horses did not exist in america until the spanish brought them over.

there. those are a few things wrong with the book of mormon itself. all of those are direct teachings of the book, yet all of them are wrong. how can it be the "most correct book"?

 

[solar_mirth]

the LDS believe satan to be the brother of Christ.

Hebrews teaches that the angels worship Christ because he is greater than them. he is not one of them.

ezekiel teaches that satan is a guardian cherub- an angel.

how can they be brothers?

again, the book of mormon and mormonism as a whole, do not agree with the bible.

 

[solar_mirth]

Brigham Young, J of D, vol 7

No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are--I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys fo that kingdom for the last dispensation--the keys to rule in the spirit world; and so on.

this is a common belief in the mormon church. yet, Christ gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter. how did Joseph Smith get them?

 

[baker]

Do mormons still hold to the belief that the creeds of all other churches are an abomination in the eyes of God and that their leaders are corrupt? I was told that this is in their doctrine. I probably should check first but I found this statement, if true, to promote a very exclusionary culture.

I also found their practice of temple marriages to be very exclusionary in that I understand you are required to answer some 15 questions in a satisfactionary manner to the male leaders of their church before one can witness the exchange of vows in thier temples. Is this accurate? Is this concept of temple marriage or eternal marriage based on any scriptural doctrine?

Could any mormons comment?

 

[Alma]

this is a common belief in the mormon church. yet, Christ gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter. how did Joseph Smith get them?

Joseph Smith said that the apostles Peter, James and John appeared to him as resurrected beings, and conferred upon him and a man named Oliver Cowdery in June of 1829.

Alma

 

[Isaiah 53]

Joseph Smith said that the apostles Peter, James and John appeared to him as resurrected beings, and conferred upon him and a man named Oliver Cowdery in June of 1829.

Alma

Right, that is a good 'cult leader' answer....

PEACE IN CHRIST!!

 

[Alma]

Do mormons still hold to the belief that the creeds of all other churches are an abomination in the eyes of God and that their leaders are corrupt? I was told that this is in their doctrine. I probably should check first but I found this statement, if true, to promote a very exclusionary culture.

That concept comes from Joseph Smith's personal account of a vision wherein the Father and the Son appeared to him in answer to a prayer of which church he should join. He said that Jesus told him not to join any of them (presumably the ones in his area) "that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'"

I think it's open to interpretation as to who the "professors" were - the authors of the creeds or someone else. Mormonism isn't big on creeds. They think that behavior is much more important than belief. Kind of like the Sermon on the Mount. It didn't mandate belief nearly as much as it mandated behavior.

I also found their practice of temple marriages to be very exclusionary in that I understand you are required to answer some 15 questions in a satisfactionary manner to the male leaders of their church before one can witness the exchange of vows in thier temples. Is this accurate? Is this concept of temple marriage or eternal marriage based on any scriptural doctrine?

The number of questions varies from time to time, but you apparently heard right. Members must obtain a "recommend" which gives them access to the temple for two years. They get this from their bishop who makes sure their behavior is consistent with the principles of Christian conduct. It goes back to behavior rather than belief.

Alma

 

[baker]

He said that Jesus told him not to join any of them (presumably the ones in his area) "that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt;

Thanks Alma,

Are you saying that only the churches in Smiths immediate area were an "abomination" but if he would have joined, say a baptist church perhaps 200 miles away, he would have been OK. What do you mean by "presumably the ones in his area"? Was god saying that it was only churches around him locally? At first blush this seems to make no sense to me? I never heard that this "first vision" was limited in geography. Was it?

Mormonism isn't big on creeds. They think that behavior is much more important than belief.

Would this be like the military and their "don't ask - don't tell" policy regarding gays? I would hope that a church is equally and/or more concerned about what you believe as they are about how you act unless it is just membership numbers they are looking for. Does my comment/concern make sense to you?

The number of questions varies from time to time, but you apparently heard right. Members must obtain a "recommend" which gives them access to the temple for two years. They get this from their bishop who makes sure their behavior is consistent with the principles of Christian conduct. It goes back to behavior rather than belief.

What are the questions and how does a bishop know if they are answering them truthfully.

Is their any scriptural support for this concept.

How would the presence of others, non-mormons, at a temple wedding invalidate the vows of those getting married. Seems like such an exclusionary practice for such a joyous occasion. I cant think of a Christian church that has such a policy.

Thanks for your input though.

 

[Alma]

Are you saying that only the churches in Smiths immediate area were an "abomination" but if he would have joined, say a baptist church perhaps 200 miles away, he would have been OK. What do you mean by "presumably the ones in his area"?

It’s important to recognize that it wasn’t the “churches” that were called an abomination, it was the “creeds.” Joseph Smith said, “the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight.” I’m kind of a stickler for looking at what the language specifically says rather than generalizations that might be drawn from it.

Was god saying that it was only churches around him locally? At first blush this seems to make no sense to me? I never heard that this "first vision" was limited in geography. Was it?

I think that your question might now be moot in that the churches weren’t referred to as an abomination. Joseph Smith relates that his object in going to God was to find out which of the churches he should join. He specifically mentioned that he was wondering about the Methodists, Baptists and Presbyterians. While it’s certainly open to interpretation, I don’t think that this was a sweeping condemnation of either Christians or Christian ministers. Many of the early Mormon converts were ministers of Methodist, Baptist, and other Christian congregations, and they certainly didn’t feel this account was a condemnation of them – many of whom became pivotal leaders of the Mormon faith. So, I lean to the idea that these comments referred specifically to the few leaders of competing revivals at that time known to Joseph Smith. Later leaders of Mormonism, including Brigham Young, had a profound reverence for men like John Wesley. In fact, Brigham Young wrote that whenever he passed Wesley’s Church in England, he removed his hat in honor of that great Christian leader.

Would this be like the military and their "don't ask - don't tell" policy regarding gays? I would hope that a church is equally and/or more concerned about what you believe as they are about how you act unless it is just membership numbers they are looking for. Does my comment/concern make sense to you?

Yes, your question makes sense, but it isn’t at all related to a “don’t ask – don’t tell” policy. There is a wide variety of belief among Mormons. Some Mormons believe in organic evolution, most don’t. Some Mormons believe that Jesus was married and some don’t. None of those beliefs are either prescribed or proscribed. Someone can be a Mormon in good standing with a variety of personal beliefs. But if those beliefs take the form of behavior that is opposed to legal or moral righteousness, a Mormon can lose his membership in the Church.

What are the questions and how does a bishop know if they are answering them truthfully.

He doesn’t know if they’re answered truthfully and I don’t believe that the existence of the questions is for the bishop to determine a person’s ability to attend the temple as much as it is an opportunity for the individual to examine his own life and declare that he meets the minimum standard. In several years as someone who issued recommends, I never had someone come that I had to say, “Nope, you don’t pass.” The members of the congregation know what is expected and if they know they’re not living the standards, they opt not to ask for a recommend. The questions have varied over the years. Currently, they’re asked if they are honest with their fellow man, live chaste lives, abstain from alcohol, tobacco and other addictive substances. I think you could probably find the specific questions somewhere on the internet.

Is their any scriptural support for this concept.

There is LDS scripture, but if you’re wondering about biblical support, I’d say that the 15th chapter of Acts tells us that the Apostles made certain stipulations for Christians including abstaining from fornication and pollutions from idols. I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to conclude that Christians were asked about those things.

How would the presence of others, non-mormons, at a temple wedding invalidate the vows of those getting married.

It wouldn’t at all. But that isn’t the reason for limiting the access. It’s an extension of the fact that to attend a temple wedding, you have to be eligible to attend the temple. It is exclusionary but not without biblical support. Jesus occasionally took only his apostles for specific teaching and sometimes excluded all but a few of the apostles. The vision on the mount of Moses and Elias took place when Jesus only invited Peter, James and John.



Alma

 

[solar_mirth]

what of the fact that the "indians" supposedly used gold-tipped arrows and spears, as well as iron? smelting and metallurgy did not come to America until the europeans came over. Gold, while extremely maleable and soft, preserves extremely well. where are all of those arrow tips? where are the swords?

where are the great towers? ones like Rameuptom? what happened to them? also, where exactly did the Jews live in america? New England? that doesn't even make sense. evidence of the great battles would have been found by now. yet there is none.

one doesn't really need to look at scripture to find that mormonism is incorrect. archaeology and history show it to be the made up fantasy of a treasure hunter.

did you know that Joseph Smith was arrested for being a fake? when he was young, he was hunting some treasure for some people. he took a "peep stone" and placed it in his hat. he then buried his face in the hat and followed the map that magically appeared. it seems odd that eye witnesses of Smith translating the plates said that he translated them in the same manner.

 

[solar_mirth]

and jesus pulled his men apart from the others because they were to be leaders in the church. it was not because each of them had shown some great behavior. Peter actually denied Christ three times.

also, why are temple mormons buried in the fig leaf aprons that satan gave Adam and Eve (this is part of the temple ceremonies. i've read the handbooks for the leaders)? God gave Adam and Eve animal skins in the bible.

 

[gort]

solar_mirth
God gave Adam and Eve animal skins in the bible.

Yes, that is Gods first work of restoration for man.