Mormonism & "Perfecting" One's Life

[AMMON]

Thanks for the admission. Now, about the second question: What's holding you up?

Weakness. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. I'm a sinner that needs to learn better to trust in the Savior and follow his example.

 

[Deren]

Weakness. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. I'm a sinner that needs to learn better to trust in the Savior and follow his example.

Weakness? C'mon Ammon, you're a Mormon. You have been provided a way to accomplish all that God commands, plus you've got guys like S. W. Kimball telling you that perfection is required if you're ever going to expect to have your body and spirit brought together one day. Besides, are you really following Jesus' example of perfection if you're using weakness of the flesh as an excuse? After all, Jesus wasn't weak or a sinner. So, if he's your example, and he didn't make excuses, then why are you? Why aren't you perfect with all of this going for you?

 

[AMMON]

Weakness? C'mon Ammon, you're a Mormon. You have been provided a way to accomplish all that God commands, plus you've got guys like S. W. Kimball telling you that perfection is required if you're ever going to expect to have your body and spirit brought together one day. Besides, are you really following Jesus' example of perfection if you're using weakness of the flesh as an excuse? After all, Jesus wasn't weak or a sinner. So, if he's your example, and he didn't make excuses, then why are you? Why aren't you perfect with all of this going for you?

Perhaps there are "perfect" members of the LDS Chruch. I am not one of them. Hopefully, someday, I will be. But right now, I've got a long ways to go.

And I said that I NEED to better follow the example of the Savior. As do we all.

 

[Deren]

Perhaps there are "perfect" members of the LDS Chruch.

What? I thought all Mormons were perfect?

I am not one of them. Hopefully, someday, I will be. But right now, I've got a long ways to go.

Why aren't you one of them?

And I said that I NEED to better follow the example of the Savior. As do we all.

Well, how do you plan on doing this, given your admission that thus far you've been a miserable failure? Just what do you assume is going to change, and to what degree are you planning on changing whereby you'll actually be in compliance with what God expects you to do and become?

 

[AMMON]

Give it a rest, Deren. I've made my points. Deal with them internally.

 

[Deren]

Give it a rest, Deren. I've made my points. Deal with them internally.

Excuse me, but avoiding the questions is not making any points. And it's not up to me to deal with anything, particularly if the questions are directed to you.

So, Ammon, why aren't you perfect? What's holding you up? After all, God has provided a way for you to accomplish what he has commanded. Or is it that you enjoy being classified as a dark, murderous, adulterer, among other things, due to your feeble attempt at keeping all God's commands unto perfection?

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

 

[Deren]

Complete forgiveness is reserved for those only who turn their whole hearts to the Lord and begin to keep all of his commandments – not just those commandments disobeyed in the past, but those in all fields.--Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), 295.

Mr./Mrs. Mormon, have you turned your "whole heart" to the Lord? Are you keeping "all" the past and present commandments? If not, why not? Also, if you're not obeying God, then why are you here promoting something that even you're not doing?

 

[calgal]

But, you shouldn't be, if you're actually doing what you're supposed to be doing to become perfect. After all, according to 1 Nephi 3:7, "the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them." So, if he's prepared this way for you to accomplish these commandments, and I'm assuming that these commands ultimately lead to your perfection, then why aren't you keeping them?



The context deals with "Temples and Eternal Marriage," and is the opening paragraph--which has been quoted in its entirety--of the article.

A follow up question would be How many sins have the mormons repeated (repeating sins negates all prior forgiveness of said sin)?

 

[The Gregorian]

1: who are you talking to?

I have to assume this question is directed at all mormons, in which case:

2: This is an ideology. That seems to say "to please God, you must serve him." ... which is something tought in all Christianity (and all other religions I can think of). Doing what pleases God, and not doing what doesn't please him... is pleasing to God... However, we're all imperfect, and will alsways fall short, hense, why we seek forgiveness.

Have you ever lied? Yes... you have. But do you agree that God would prefer you not to lie? I would assume so since the bible clearly says lying is a sin. Ideologically, no one would ever lie... therefore we should suggest we try not to lie... even though we occasionally will.

I believe that is what that passage was stating (although I'm not mormon, nore do I even know to what you were referring).

 

[kdlds]

Excuse me, but avoiding the questions is not making any points. And it's not up to me to deal with anything, particularly if the questions are directed to you.

So, Ammon, why aren't you perfect? What's holding you up? After all, God has provided a way for you to accomplish what he has commanded. Or is it that you enjoy being classified as a dark, murderous, adulterer, among other things, due to your feeble attempt at keeping all God's commands unto perfection?

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Your totally missing the point. As I pointed out.



Moro 10:32
32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

Christ's grace is sufficient.

 

[Rescued One]

Mr./Mrs. Mormon, have you turned your "whole heart" to the Lord? Are you keeping "all" the past and present commandments? If not, why not? Also, if you're not obeying God, then why are you here promoting something that even you're not doing?

Probably some of the LDS who post are temple Mormons who pay their tithes, keep the WoW, attend their meetings, are not committing adultery, devote some time to church duties, etc. That's what they want us to do, right?

I hope I didn't ruin your thread.

 

[MormonFriend]

So, as I asked another Mormon, are we to assume then, that you're imperfect? If so, why? ....

So sorry Deren, I will not try to keep up with your clinging to one partial point, and ignoring the other essential and related points that have been presented to you, that you refuse to include with the full equation of this subject.

Perfection takes time, a gift God gave us for that reason. It takes time because, as you have illustrated so well, it is difficult to see one's own failings, and easy to see another's. As we endure in our struggles to overcome, we better see those latent issues of self faults, and its only then that the test of genuine humility begings. Furthermore, not everyone will become perfect, so your campaign to find one is fruitless, since you cannot know how long it may take, if it happens at all.

So, I echo what Ammon said, give it a rest.

 

[MormonFriend]

Mr./Mrs. Mormon, have you turned your "whole heart" to the Lord? Are you keeping "all" the past and present commandments? If not, why not? Also, if you're not obeying God, then why are you here promoting something that even you're not doing?

This OP is so similar to your other thread, that it can only generate the same responses and conclusions. So, cutting to the chase, http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=19879314#post19879314

 

[SayWhat???]

Mr./Mrs. Mormon, have you turned your "whole heart" to the Lord? Are you keeping "all" the past and present commandments? If not, why not? Also, if you're not obeying God, then why are you here promoting something that even you're not doing?

I have answsered this question in your other thread, and you may read the answer there. Now, let me ask you a question. Do you ever sin, or are you truly perfect, as you imply? If so, I suppose you do not need Christ anymore, for He came to help sinners, like myself, and not "those who are whole" like you claim to be? Are you sure you're so perfect? Please reread 1 John 1:8

SW

 

[newyorksaint]

What? God has given commandments, but he doesn't expect you to keep them? And if we cannot be perfect now, then what is the point of him giving all these commandments in the first place, and then providing a way to keep them?



If that's the case, then what's the point of repenting?



And what better way of living our lives the "best we can" than by obeying all of God's commandments perfectly?



Au contraire. Because once again, I don't live by the same standard as you do as a Mormon, remember? Otherwise, I would ascribe to Mormon doctrine, and I don't.



That's already been answered.

Deren-I have already answered your questions, throughly, and you continue to not listen. As that is the case, I am putting this discussion to the side for now, until you can listen to reason. What our leaders have said is the equivlent to what is in the bible. While God will provide us with a way to overcome obstacles, our mortal being doesn't allow to always take that path. That's why the Atonement was made; so we can repent, and try again.

Good day, and good luck. May you open your eyes for once, and see what we are saying, versus what you want us to say.

 

[newyorksaint]

Deren-

Why do you ask questions of us LDS here, when the same applies to you, as these are things expressed in the Bible? Do you hold a double standard? LDS must be held to a higher standard? Or are you perfect?

 

[calgal]

Deren-

Why do you ask questions of us LDS here, when the same applies to you, as these are things expressed in the Bible? Do you hold a double standard? LDS must be held to a higher standard? Or are you perfect?

nys:

You are missing his point. If you are at a "higher level" than non mormons and are able to become gods of your own worlds after death, then this life is a "test" and passing said test requires the godlet presumptive to be free of all sin. Are you free of all sin?

 

[Apex]

nys:

You are missing his point. If you are at a "higher level" than non mormons and are able to become gods of your own worlds after death, then this life is a "test" and passing said test requires the godlet presumptive to be free of all sin. Are you free of all sin?

You are making your own assumptions that are not true by saying this. We are not at a "higher level" than non mormons. That is something no one should be allowed to judge. So quit with the thinking that all us Mormons belive were better then everyone esle, because the only ones who think that are the critics found here.

 

[Wrigley]

You are making your own assumptions that are not true by saying this. We are not at a "higher level" than non mormons. That is something no one should be allowed to judge. So quit with the thinking that all us Mormons belive were better then everyone esle, because the only ones who think that are the critics found here.

Doesn't it follow that since you have "more" than we Christians have that you'd be at a higher level? Wouldn't you be higher since, and I'm assuming here, you have a temple recommend and are able to partake in your secret/sacred ceremonies?

You're making an assumption that calgal thinks you think you're better than the rest of us. I don't see that in her post.

 

[newyorksaint]

Doesn't it follow that since you have "more" than we Christians have that you'd be at a higher level? Wouldn't you be higher since, and I'm assuming here, you have a temple recommend and are able to partake in your secret/sacred ceremonies?

You're making an assumption that calgal thinks you think you're better than the rest of us. I don't see that in her post.

Higher level of understanding, maybe, but higher level of "perfection"? Hardly.