Mormon Recruiting in an Evangelical Church

[intojoy]

Please stop being rude. You're hiding your light under a bushel.

I'm sorry to offend you Ann. Thanks for your humility.

Best Regards

 

[Catherineanne]

I would suspect that DRsteve is on guard from anyone coming into his meetings and saying their hail mary's also. Is that considered recruting? Dr?
I would not be bothered by it in any meeting. Not being insecure has its benefits.

I think that is something of a tangent to the OP.

However, for the record, nobody can stop me saying a Hail Mary any time I want to, whether in an evangelical church, a synagogue, a mosque or a Hindu temple.

Good manners (aka self control) prevents me from saying this prayer out loud, but nothing prevents me saying it to myself whenever and wherever the Spirit moves me to do so. The Hail Mary is a very personal prayer connecting us with the events of the ministry and Passion of the Lord; it is far more often spoken privately than publicly.

 

[Catherineanne]

We have many Catholics who attend our church and I know none of them that write letters recruiting our members to become Catholics and to attend RCIA. So we welcome them. If they do what Stan did I would confront that too.

Had Stan simply attended without seeking to recruit no one would have minded.

Seriously, cut down on the coffee.

Life is too short to spend being Correspondence Police.

 

[Catherineanne]

I believe that the church ages are seven...

1. Ephesus – Apostolic – Leaving the first love… “All they which are in Asia be turned away from me…” – II Timothy 1:15
2. Smyrna – Martyrs – Persecutions ten days… Foxes Book of Martyrs describes ten Roman persecutions.
3. Pergamos – Orthodox – A pyrgos is a fortified structure – Needed for the dark ages.
4. Thyatira – Catholic – The Spirit of Jezebel is to persecute, control, and to dominate... Can invade any church!
5. Sardis – Protestant – A sardius is a gem, elegant yet hard and rigid. Doctrine in the head, little in the heart.
6. Philadelphia – Methodist – To obtain sanctification was to do so with love.
7. Laodicea – Charismatic – Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

It is the spirit of Jezebel whose desire it is to control and to dominate. My perspective of Mormonism is that it yet another Jezebel trying to raise her head up, convincing its members that the sect is the only way to Salvation. The spirit of Jezebel would be ruthless if the Mormons were allowed to have their way and take over as a state religion.

This is so far from what I believe that it is pretty well total gibberish.

However, if it makes you happy, carry on.

But... So would anyone else. The Catholics, Calvinists, and Lutherans hated and persecuted the Ana-Baptists relentlessly.

When exactly?

I think you will find that if you go back far enough pretty well everyone persecuted pretty well everyone else.

We do not live in those times. We live now; we have learned tolerance and acceptance. We have learned to forgive. We have learned that God has created ten thousand different kinds of butterfly, and that he delights in diversity. We are trying to learn the same lesson.

Good luck with that.

 

[Catherineanne]

I too appreciate your honest insight.

Have you ever wondered how something started from a charlatan with barking mad theology could have ever have survived the first years, let alone almost two centuries? How could it become attractive to both average persons and those showing superior intelligence? How could it cause people to give up everything, move from their homes and countries, and then to sacrifice and suffer to a degree that you and I cannot imagine, and continue to go forward with increased faith? And not only survive, but become so organized and established in a way that it has the strength and power to help not only their own, but generously to others in need. How could a "mad theology" inspire people to do this?

Indeed, Joseph Smith alone could not have done this. There were powers behind the movement that all must account for, that either come from the Heavenly Source, or the unseen powers of evil. If from evil, why are its followers compelled and devoted to do good?

Your statement does not add up.

Frankly I do not spend any time whatever thinking about Joseph Smith.

My concern is my own relationship with my Lord, and carrying my own cross. Joseph Smith can worry about his own cross.

As for how Mormonism survived; the same way Islam did. This is a fallen world; fallen theologies abound.

 

[Catherineanne]

And I'm perfectly fine and not offended if you "think" that.
Just don't misrepresent us like others do, and you'll be just fine to us.

I have no problem with individuals. My assumption will be that you are a follower of the Lord until I find otherwise.

None of us gets to eternity because of the orthodoxy of our theology, but because of the love we show to one another.

But, just an FYI.... I'm a convert to the Church, who attended many so-called orthodox churches and otherwise prior to being Mormon, and I read the Bible for myself, and saw for myself how all these religions were accurately in many cases following what the book said and omitted a lot. I then came upon the LDS Church and it was and still is the only religion that fully fits the Bible, even after leaving the church and being anti-mormon and anti-religion for a time.

That is a very non standard view of what the Bible says.

I wouldn't be in the religion unless it was literally true and fit the Bible.
And given my experience, you should tell I have good objectivity and high standards. I'm not much tolerant of man-made religion.

Who are you trying to convince?

Might I propose to you that the "reason" you think our religion is "barking mad" is because of the perversions of our religion by our enemy's? From my varied experience I actually know this to be the case as a convert and former anti-mormon myself. Anti-Mormonism is much like Fanatical Islam in comparison or Atheists in what they say of Jews, Christians or the Bible. Thus, if I were you I wouldn't "trust" what people are saying of us, since it IS that bad.

Propose what you like. It makes no difference to me. I have no axe to grind against the Mormon church; it does not answer to me.

But anyway, I appreciate your good judgment at least in this event.
And it's one reason I mentioned these things to you, because if you actually knew us, you might change your mind of our religion, even if you still weren't interested in it. But take care.....

I have no problem with Mormons as people. It is your theology that is barking mad, not your people. Well, some of them might be, but that is true of any church.

 

[Catherineanne]

Send her a letter. Tell her how Joseph snatched Peter's keys. That just might make her bosom burn.

Rest assured, if anyone were to send me any such letter, I would not give it to my priest and ask him to protect me from it. Chances are I would say, 'How interesting; however, I disagree.'

I am over 21; I don't need to behave like a child.

 

[Catherineanne]

Further, we are not your "enemy", unless you bear false witness of us.
For to do so you make yourself an enemy of God. God is the God of Truth, Right, Goodness, Love, Charity, Honesty, etc., not those who bear falsely of others. And it's the primary reason we post here, because of all the false witness of our faith going on.

Did the Lord say, 'Love thy neighbour unless he bears false witness against you?'

I am afraid your approach is lacking in charity, and bound to lead to confrontation. The trick is to continue to love, and continue to show charity, even when misrepresented.

Defending is very rarely seen as defending to the other side; it will be perceived as an attack. The only way to have true fellowship is to stop defending.

This is the narrow way.

 

[Rescued One]

I have no problem with individuals. My assumption will be that you are a follower of the Lord until I find otherwise.

None of us gets to eternity because of the orthodoxy of our theology, but because of the love we show to one another.

Do you believe 1 Timothy 4:16?

"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

 

[MormonFriend]

A historical tour through LDS temple Angel Moroni statues | Deseret News



Hoop te do.

A cross better represents the real gospel.

Poor research for a Dr. You get a D-
Look up the reason that every statue on the temples are facing east.

 

[rockytopva]

This is so far from what I believe that it is pretty well total gibberish.

Catherineanne... The English have pretty well forgotten the beauty of the Wesleyan revival. So everything I say, as far as you are concerned, is total gibberish.

 

[drstevej]

Poor research for a Dr. You get a D-
Look up the reason that every statue on the temples are facing east.

Off topic.

 

[drstevej]

Rest assured, if anyone were to send me any such letter, I would not give it to my priest and ask him to protect me from it. Chances are I would say, 'How interesting; however, I disagree.'

I am over 21; I don't need to behave like a child.

Stan was over 21
He did not ask for protection
He thought it was brazen

 

[williamgramsmith]

Did the Lord say, 'Love thy neighbour unless he bears false witness against you?'

Please don't misunderstand.... Christ had his enemy's, but he still loved them, and as do I.

I am afraid your approach is lacking in charity, and bound to lead to confrontation. The trick is to continue to love, and continue to show charity, even when misrepresented.

Unfortunately religion or politics there is always' going to be confrontation that doesn't mean we stop explaining our views for the benefit of others who may not understand and want to fairly represent others.

But, might I also add that while a little "cute", calling someones religion "barking mad" which if you've noticed I haven't called anyone's religion any "name" is a bit "uncharitable" don't you think?

Defending is very rarely seen as defending to the other side; it will be perceived as an attack. The only way to have true fellowship is to stop defending.

This is the narrow way.

You are right, which is why Mormons don't attack other faiths like they do thus disobeying Christ's command in Mark 9, Luke 9, & Matthew 18. We only "actually" defend the Faith. Though, to be fair while defending we sometimes compare and contrast, and that can be seen as critical, but our primary actions here is simply correcting for falsehoods said of us, as the scriptures command us to do, to defend the faith and preserve the faith once delivered. We in contrast don't "attack" other faiths, for the most part, because like you, we don't care what others choose, and we've been told by Christ to leave them alone, per the above scriptures.

Actually, the better way to true fellowship is for those to stop attacking....
Defense is a must if you want to live, people have a right to life, which is the whole purpose of this life, to choose, attacking however creates war and is entirely against God's Plan because it try's to force ones will over others.

BTW, your other post, I'm not sure what you meant by "that's a very non-standard view of what the Bible says"?
Because, I didn't say anything in that post related to the Bible, I simply shared my experience with it and related to religion.

 

[williamgramsmith]

Do you believe 1 Timothy 4:16?

"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

This is saying to preserve yourself and the doctrine..... for the sake of yourself and those that hear your preaching. It doesn't say anything about misrepresenting and attacking others beliefs, it's entirely about preserving the faith as you have it which is an inward thing, not outward.

 

[Rescued One]

This is saying to preserve yourself and the doctrine..... for the sake of yourself and those that hear your preaching. It doesn't say anything about misrepresenting and attacking others beliefs, it's entirely about preserving the faith as you have it which is an inward thing, not outward.

I don't condone misrepresentation of any kind.

I think people deserve to know the teachings of Mormonism and I believe that God wants me to be totally honest, to not put a spin on it, and to correct those who might come barging in here with assumptions about Mormonism that are not true. I also believe that all our posts should be about teachings, not about individual forum members.


“As I urged you when I was going into Macedonia, stay at Ephesus that you might command certain men not to teach a different doctrine,”
1 Timothy 1:3

 

[Rescued One]

You are right, which is why Mormons don't attack other faiths like they do thus disobeying Christ's command in Mark 9, Luke 9, & Matthew 18. We only "actually" defend the Faith. Though, to be fair while defending we sometimes compare and contrast, and that can be seen as critical, but our primary actions here is simply correcting for falsehoods said of us, as the scriptures command us to do, to defend the faith and preserve the faith once delivered. We in contrast don't "attack" other faiths, for the most part, because like you, we don't care what others choose, and we've been told by Christ to leave them alone, per the above scriptures.

Our beliefs and actions may differ from those of others, but we, as good Christians, do not criticize other religions or their adherents. “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”
- Joseph B. Wirthlin, “Christians in Belief and Action,” Ensign, Nov. 1996, 70

"First Vision:"

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

20
...I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
lds.org

If that becomes the doctrine of the Church we will be worse than the Catholics who believe that you can pray a man out of purgatory. But they charge for it and we don't, so we would be more foolish than they."
Melvin J. Ballard, Three Degrees of Glory (Salt Lake City: Joseph Lyon & Associates, 1975), 26.

When the early Apostles were gone, those who assumed the leadership of the Church forsook revelation and relied on reason. The idea of three separate Gods offended them, for it appeared to contravene those scriptures which refer to one God.
To reconcile that problem, they took verses here and there and ignored all else that bears on the subject. They tried to stir the three ones together into some mysterious kind of a composite one. They came up with creeds which cannot be squared with the scriptures. And they were left with a philosophy which opposes all we know of creation, of the laws of nature. And that, interestingly enough, defies the very reason upon which they came to depend.
Boyd K. Packer, “The Pattern of Our Parentage,” Ensign, Nov. 1984, 66

 

[williamgramsmith]

The rare theological contrast does not equate "attacks" on other religions, nor does even the rare direct criticism.

Do you people really not comprehend the subtle but significant difference?

Even more so, do you not understand the difference between bearing false witness of another religion which you do in almost your every word of us, and simply disagreement or criticism?

It's like pounding the head against a brick wall. We tell you over and over how clearly different we are from one another by THE FACTS, yet you ignore THE FACTS and "strain" any negative statement you can find from history AS IF THAT MAKES US THE SAME.

 

[MormonFriend]

Off topic.

It must trace back as sub topics as answers to the main post. You challenged the Temples we build as bearing the name of Christ with the photo of the statue of Moroni atop. Was that photo off topic? No! It traces back to questions or statements made.

I was correct in pointing out that the criticisms against our faith, for the most part, are the results of taking one piece of our jigsaw puzzle (or one of our beliefs) and trying to discredit it by demonstrating how the piece does not fit into your puzzle scheme, or big picture. You fear placing our beliefs and doctrines together as they should go, as we try to help everyone see what our big picture is suppposed to look like. However , we are very limited in our efforts to show how the pieces fit, because only the Holy Ghost can reveal how, where and why the pieces fit, except for the pieces called faith, repentance, baptism, and receiving (by the laying on of hands) the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Those are the four corner pieces. The Holy Ghost wil show all, line upon line, after we apply the corner pieces.

Hence, all the arguements and inability for many to understand.

 

[drstevej]

It must trace back as sub topics as answers to the main post. You challenged the Temples we build as bearing the name of Christ with the photo of the statue of Moroni atop. Was that photo off topic? No! It traces back to questions or statements made.

I was correct in pointing out that the criticisms against our faith, for the most part, are the results of taking one piece of our jigsaw puzzle (or one of our beliefs) and trying to discredit it by demonstrating how the piece does not fit into your puzzle scheme, or big picture. You fear placing our beliefs and doctrines together as they should go, as we try to help everyone see what our big picture is suppposed to look like. However , we are very limited in our efforts to show how the pieces fit, because only the Holy Ghost can reveal how, where and why the pieces fit, except for the pieces called faith, repentance, baptism, and receiving (by the laying on of hands) the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Those are the four corner pieces. The Holy Ghost wil show all, line upon line, after we apply the corner pieces.

Hence, all the arguements and inability for many to understand.

Start a new thread. Your puzzle results in the face of Joseph rather than Jesus.