Moriah's statement - Can it be framed !!??!

[MoNiCa4316]

Yes we are transformed by grace, but His righteousness isn't merely attributed to us, it's a real transformation after which a person actually lives righteously. If anyone doubts that this is possible I encourage them to read the lives of the Saints it's rare on earth but possible. We'll all be fully sanctified in Heaven though. Right now, it's a slow journey. "work out your salvation with fear and trembling.."

Faith without works is dead.. I'd also say works without love are dead..

we receive grace by faith but it's not enough to just believe, we must cooperate with it. In other words: LET God do His work. Repent of sin. Rely on God but always be willing to do His will and be charitable to others. Otherwise, faith becomes a mere intellectual opinion.

God bless

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Now that's some good stuff MoNiCa.

 

[habeas]

Yes we are transformed by grace, but His righteousness isn't merely attributed to us, it's a real transformation after which a person actually lives righteously. If anyone doubts that this is possible I encourage them to read the lives of the Saints it's rare on earth but possible. We'll all be fully sanctified in Heaven though. Right now, it's a slow journey. "work out your salvation with fear and trembling.."

Faith without works is dead.. I'd also say works without love are dead..

we receive grace by faith but it's not enough to just believe, we must cooperate with it. In other words: LET God do His work. Repent of sin. Rely on God but always be willing to do His will and be charitable to others. Otherwise, faith becomes a mere intellectual opinion.

God bless

Yes, and amen! But many make the mistake of only fearing and trembling, and trying to do "works." I was terrified of grace "doctrine," because of the "license" problem. The other thread started by the OP says it all.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

BUT ...

THERE EXISTS NO "LET".

 

[habeas]

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Hebrews 4:11

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Again,
THERE EXISTS NO "LET".

Philippians 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Again,
THERE EXISTS NO "LET".

Philippians 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

what do you mean? I'm kind of confused.

I think it's possible to reject grace, in which case you'll neither do nor want to do His will. You 'let' God transform you by a willingness to act according to His grace and leading.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Yes, and amen! But many make the mistake of only fearing and trembling, and trying to do "works." I was terrified of grace "doctrine," because of the "license" problem. The other thread started by the OP says it all.

oki

I believe in works under grace

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I think it's possible to reject grace, in which case you'll neither do nor want to do His will. You 'let' God transform you by a willingness to act according to His grace and leading.

Moriah believes if we could reject it, it would not really be grace.
Moriah also believes if God had to be dependent upon us to "let" Him do His work, it would not really be salvation and rescue, but a cruel trick bringing an even greater damnation and doom. Because without the regenerative power of God none of us can even care about serving Him or wish to serve Him in the first place. Salvation and grace must be miracles from God, not relying on the fallen creature in its natural state to either approve or deny first, or they bes nothing at all.

Those who come to be convinced that grace only exists as a little trick to put them back under the law and on the works treadmill of having to earn their place in the Kingdom eventually make shipwreck of their faith and wander in turmoil thereafter. IF they bes fortunate, we mean. If they bes not so fortunate, they end up deluded into thinking that constitutes the Gospel, and making converts twenty times more miserable and hellbound than themselves in their wake.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Moriah believes if we could reject it, it would not really be grace.

hmm well I don't really want to get into a debate, but the reason I disagree with this is that if everyone always accepted grace, this would not only go against free will (God wants us to be His free sons and daughters), but also it would mean that those who will go to hell were not given grace.. and that is Calvinism, I guess, in which God decides to save some but decides to eternally punish others. I believe that God loves everyone.

Moriah also believes if God had to be dependent upon us to "let" Him do His work, it would not really be salvation and rescue, but a cruel trick bringing an even greater damnation and doom. Because without the regenerative power of God none of us can even care about serving Him or wish to serve Him in the first place. Salvation and grace must be miracles from God, not relying on the fallen creature in its natural state to either approve or deny first, or they bes nothing at all.

I see what you are saying, but God does help us to accept His graces, He knows our hearts and He knows what exactly we need.. and in baptism we get born again which makes us more open to grace than before, IMO. This isn't a topic I know much about. I just leave it up to God. I do believe that He wants to save everyone, and that everyone has a chance, and that He gives people multiple chances.. all the way until their death.

I believe that God gives different amounts of graces to people, some are given lots of faith and some are more naturally skeptical, it really matters though what we do with what we have been given. (parable of the talents) So someone who doesn't look like a very devout Christian, it could be that they are rejecting what God is giving them, it could also mean that they're trying and are just in a different stage of their 'journey'. It's not very easy to reject grace, that's why I don't think that's a cruel idea, because - as I said, God does give lots of chances and tries to draw people to Him...and no one is a hopeless case, even if the worst sinner in the world turns to God's mercy he would be saved. God's mercy is infinite. But - imagine someone who God is leading to repentance..someone who FEELS they should repent...and feel terrible about their sins...but maybe because of their pride, they say no.. that is rejecting grace. Again, it's not easy and causes the soul much anguish.! However God will keep on leading them to repentance though until they die.

There is no single occasion of accepting or rejecting grace.. it's something we do continuously throughout our lives. Whoever perseveres till the end shall be saved.

I might be wrong...but that is my understanding.

God bless

 

[MoNiCa4316]

yes, and also Christ increases the more we decrease...our pride, our self love..


if anyone is wondering about this topic, pray and read Scripture I can't say my understanding is perfect or anything, but it makes sense to me. I wouldn't want someone to stumble because of what I say. Ask God to show you what He wants.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Not really interested in debating either, friend. Hey, if God intended us all to think exactly alike, He would not have bothered making us different people but would have just given us all the exact same face, name, life, experience, mind, feelings, thoughts, etc. and rubber stamped us all out as clones!

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

but ...

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

No matter what anyone says ....

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

... THERE EXISTS NO "LET".

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

.... cuz either God saves or He doesn't. If He does, it means we need it start to finish and it has to come, and can only come, from outside and beyond ourselves. Which means it cannot rely upon the "letting" of anyone possessed of a sin nature, the very definition of which would be NOT letting.

If He doesn't, and it depends on us, then we don't need Him for it, so we don't need to do any "letting".

Either way, there bes no "let".

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

In fact, belief in this "letting" business would be the opposite of trusting in God, because it puts the creature ultimately in control instead of the Creator. When you trust someone else, you put them in charge, put them in control of the outcome. If you find some clever little fiction to use as a loophole to ultimately put yourself in control, that's not trust. That's self controlling the situation and calling the shots. Not Moriah's definition of salvation and divine rescue, but whatever floats your boat!

 

[MoNiCa4316]

perhaps we're approaching this from different angles.

cause I agree that God saves, that we can't save ourselves, and if I'll find myself in Heaven someday I'll give Him the credit not little me. What I meant by rejecting graces is how sometimes God tells me to be more charitable with people, for example, and offers me so much help, but I go ahead and do the opposite.and just ignore the help. But - thankfully He doesn't give up on us. So I do trust Him to finish the work He started.

I define "letting" simply as surrendering to God ...asking Him for help, trusting Him that it would work, that somehow He will grant us to follow Him better. So yea maybe we're just coming from different perspectives..happens a lot here at forums.

God bless

 

[habeas]

BUT ...

THERE EXISTS NO "LET".

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Hebrews 4:11

I had not read your post, Moriah, when I posted mine right afterwards, which is really odd. I was trying to continue my thought from the prior post.

Paul said works were by grace. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work. 2 Cor. 9:8.

We have a responsibility, to seek, knock, etc., and not to harden our hearts. Hebrews 4:7 "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I'm sure God knows how salvation happens so I'm just leaving the theology up to Him, - ..He knows what to do.