More proof Evolution is not true

[Joshua G.]

I'm not talking about creationists being shut out. I'm not a creationist.. at least not dogmatically.

 

[Criada]

Mod Hat On

​

Just a reminder to non-Catholics -
you may post here in fellowship, but please don't debate.
Thanks

Mod Hat Off​

 

[jay1]

i'm an Atheist but i was raised Catholic and my Mum says i still am Catholic.

Can I debate?

 

[Michie]

i'm an Atheist but i was raised Catholic and my Mum says i still am Catholic.

Can I debate?

No. You have to be a practicing Catholic in union with Rome.

 

[jay1]

No. You have to be a practicing Catholic in union with Rome.

It was a little joke. Have a nice day.

 

[Michie]

It was a little joke. Have a nice day.

You too.

 

[Romans 13:3]

I am a practicing Catholic, so...

Truth cannot contradict truth.

 

[Joshua G.]

DWolf:

did you mean imaginative or imaginary? They aren't synonomous.

 

[DWolf15]

DWolf:

did you mean imaginative or imaginary? They aren't synonomous.

Imaginative. ;]

• IMAGINATIVE (adjective)
The adjective IMAGINATIVE has 1 sense:
1. (used of persons or artifacts) marked by independence and creativity in thought or action

Familiarity information: IMAGINATIVE used as an adjective is very rare.

 

[Joshua G.]

Interesting.

Are you bascially asking why FriendlyJosh doesn't just take a more theistic approach to Creation, thereby embracing evolution?

This isn't a rhetorical question. I am trying to clarify your intent and meaning before moving on.

Josh

 

[Joshua G.]

Familiarity information: IMAGINATIVE used as an adjective is very rare.

I don't get this part. I have only ever heard Imaginitive used as an adjective. Am I missing what this dictionary entry is trying to say? I've never considered the adjective very rare. Sorry for my denseness. lol

 

[DWolf15]

Interesting.

Are you bascially asking why FriendlyJosh doesn't just take a more theistic approach to Creation, thereby embracing evolution?

This isn't a rhetorical question. I am trying to clarify your intent and meaning before moving on.

Josh

In a way, yes. I'm looking at everything scientific and religious from my point of view which is realist and common sense. Someone shouldn't just shut out something so big just because they believe in something else. There is proof, may it be for something other than apes > humans.

 

[DWolf15]

I don't get this part. I have only ever heard Imaginitive used as an adjective. Am I missing what this dictionary entry is trying to say? I've never considered the adjective very rare. Sorry for my denseness. lol

Oh and no lol I actually just copied the text from a dictionary, I don't honestly understand that part either.. Let's just scratch it out. xP

 

[underheaven]

source Science and the bible part 2 (read for some other great stuff on the page)


Now lets take a look at the bible and Geology.

The majority of scientist in this field clash with what the bible teaches because most of these scientist teach evolution. Geology involves the study of the history of the earths crust, rocks and strata. Strata simply means the different layers that are found within the earths crust.​

If you look in any biology or geology textbooks you will find diagram of a so-called geological Column. The geological column is suppose to represent 12 different geological ages of life forms that have formed over billions of years. The lowest level is suppose to contain the most simplex creatures and the further you move up the column the more complex they become. But let me let you in on a little secret, this geological column does not exist anywhere on this earth. It only exist in their own textbooks and imagination.

There is a major flaw with their geological column. For example if all the earths living creatures were stacked on top of each other that supposedly evolved over a time span of 2 billion years the depth would have to be 130miles. This is a major problem considering the earth crust is only 25 to 30 miles deep. So their hunch just doesn’t stack up.

Another major problem that they have to deal with is the true geological record that we have today. You see the lowest level of fossils that we have today is called the Cambrian level. This is an amazing level because there are great variety of organism found here which indicate that all these life forms existed together at once which exactly what the Bible teaches. The truth of the matter is that every major invertebrate animal group has been found in this layer. The simplex and the complex are found together which goes directly against what the evolutionist teach. They teach only the most simplex should be in this layer.

I believe the bible holds the real answer to this lower level containing so many different kinds of organism. The bible account of the flood in Gen 6:17 and Gen 7:23 is a more accurately account for these species being in this lower level. In order for something to become a fossil it has to be covered quickly before it decays because if it just left there it most likely will be eaten. Since there are so many different organism in one place the flood waters best fit why so many are preserved in one place and we need to keep in mind that these great graveyards can be found all over the world again indicating a world wide flood. The water would quickly bury these creatures give them the ideal condition to become fossils. Also, every mountain that we have on this earth show signs of being under water at one point which gives us more evidence of a world wide flood just as the Word of God states.

I also want to show you some evidence that shows that man and some of these other creatures that supposedly died out millions years before man both coexisted at one time.

First I want to show you an Inca burial stone.

“This stone was engraved by the Incas long before the discovery of dinosaurs in the mid 1800's. Engraved on this stone is a triceratops dinosaur which is accurately portrayed in detail with a human rider mounted on its back. It would appear that the Incas, or their ancestors, had seen living dinosaurs.”

Our next example is a fossil of sandal print and trilobite.

“The oldest fossil footprint yet found was discovered in June 1968 by William J. Meister on an expedition to Antelope Spring, 43 miles west of Delta, Utah, USA. He was accompanied by his wife and two daughters, and by Mr. and Mrs. Francis Shape and their two daughters. The party had already discovered several fossils of trilobites when Meister split open a two-inch-thick slab of rock with his hammer and discovered the print. The rock fell open 'like a book' revealing on one side the footprint of a human with trilobites right in the footprint itself. The other half of the rock slab showed an almost perfect mold of the footprint and fossils. Amazingly the human was wearing a sandal! The sandal that seems to have crushed a living trilobite was 10 1/4 inches long and 3 1/2 inches wide; the heel is indented slightly more than the sole, as a human shoe print would be." According to the "Theory of Evolution" humans and trilobites would not have been around at the same time, but as the photo shows, they were.”

My last example is what is known as the Coffee track.

“In 1934 Mr. A.M. Coffee of Stinnett, Texas, a pumper for the Gulf Oil Company, discovered a trail of nine “human-like footprints” in series on a rock ledge about four miles out of town. He worked one of the tracks loose and took it home. After he showed the artifact to a few friends including his boss, various interested persons took the rest of the tracks from the site. The discovery created an instant controversy among archaeologists, geologists and anthropologists, because the sedimentary rock system of the entire area is geologically assigned Permian (assumed to be 225 million years old). The general consensus was that the print had to be a carving made by Indians, or the like. The difficulties involved in drawing such conclusions were enhanced by the fact that the print was accompanied by eight other prints in the series, along with an adjacent child's print. Further controversy ensued when it was pointed out that the tracks were not “stylized” as other Indian carvings are.”

Now these foot prints have been analyzed by our latest technology and have been deemed authentic foot prints and not carved ones. So, once again we have another example that shows that man existed at the same times as the other animals that supposedly lived 225 million years ago.

Another interesting fact is that we have around 250,000 different species preserved in fossils today. Out of all of these fossils records we would assume that if the evolutionist were correct we would find some half formed creature during the evolution period. However, not 1 single fossil has been found with half formed features. There are so many holes in the evolution theory one wonders why the continue to teach it.

Scientist will never find their missing link because the bible makes it clear that things produce after their own kind as seen in,

Genesis 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

This means a tree will produce a tree and monkey will produce a monkey. We have never evolved from something else. We are not now in state of evolving into something better instead we are going through a processes of degeneration. So far this morning and this evening we have only talked about the field of Astronomy, Oceanography, Physics, and Geology. There are many more fields of science we could talk about and what the Bible say about them but we will stop here. Again, I stand amazed at how much scientific foreknowledge in found in the bible. I hope that you will be able to share some of these points I have made with those around you.

It's good that you are bringing up this subject,as christians have broadly ignored these
kind of subjects,and have not encouraged followers to educate themselves around the age of
the earth etc.In fact, the church has more than discouraged lay people to do so.

Yhis has led to the loss of many intellectual types,to atheism,and has been my beef for a
very long time. We need to be treated with more respect, ie. the 'searchers'.
Belief alone, with love and hope, is necessary for early Catholics,but leads to
'decay', when it does not lead to an opening up intellectually over a long time.
Having said All that, it is a fact that the earth is much older than it was ever given to
believe by people who were christians .
About the missing link,no there is no evidence of that,and we certainly did not move upwards from
the beasts to become human,that I am sure of .However what I personally belief, is that from Heaven
we were expelled for our disobedience to our Creator. Lucifer, like many atheists who seek 'knowledge'
of God's design ,in order that they can supplant God in His own design ,did the same thing at the Fall.
We literally 'fell 'to earth where lower souls,and life already existed. There may have been earlier Falls,
and Cycles of Rising and Falling . I cannot prove all of this ,but that some of us came already
from Heaven,that, I am sure of .
Hence me name .

 

[underheaven]

I wish people would stop saying this. Theistic evolution is not contrary to Church teaching. Besides, it makes you sound really haughty and self-righteous because such a statement insinuates that you, as a "bible-believer", are inherently above those who see a harmony between science and faith.

Clever ,and true. Your posts are economic, without being curt ,and always inform. Thankyou.

 

[underheaven]

Evolution is not an established fact. Sure there is some evidence for it, but like all scientific theories, it is very much subject to potential revision and change (and historically these things get changed and revised a lot).

Anyway, if it were true, it would not be irreconcilable with the Creation account in Genesis. I like one of the explanations St. Augustine says is possible in his work "The Literal Meaning of Genesis." In Book 6 on the creation of man, he explains the idea that the six days represent not literal days, but a scheme or plan of creation. The actual creation during those “days” was instantaneous and of things in potency and causation, but not necessarily their final visible form which would be shaped later over time. For example, he places the actual formation of man’s body after the seventh day:



In other words, God created all matter and energy at once and planned out how these things will come together and be formed, but that actual shaping of everything has taken place over the eons, etc.

I find this explanation interesting as well because it explains why there are two separate creation accounts of man (one is in potency and the other is in actuality). This explanation also jives with another popular theory of our time: the Big Bang.

This kind of post ,and there are many more from others,indicates that the Holy Spirit is very much 'active' in this time,because more and more people are 'ready 'for a higher level of discussion [ I won't use 'evolution',as it may be misunderstood]. Yes, some of those who love Christ are on,moving on, to a spiritual plane,which combines, this love ,faith and Grace with a greater knowledge of science, and material knowledge.What a wonderful God Teacher we have,as He guides us forward and upwards.
Thankyou for a superb post .

 

[bill5]

Yet after 12+ years of brainwashing

It's clear none of you are going to listen, you're set on your ways and hold tight to your brain washing

Oh the irony.

It would be helpful to know when those posting such things here aren't even Catholic. I thought non-RCCs stirring things up here was some kind of no-no-?

Anyway IMO the "young Earth"/creationism thing is so patently silly and does not contradict the Bible in the tiniest. I have to shake my head every time this comes up.

 

[Joshua G.]

I'm not against theistic evolution but I am not longer convinced of it as I had been years past mainly because I have realized how dogmatic and closed minded the scientific community is where the powers that be do no want other theories to be put forth in the lime light.

While it is true I am not a scientist (which is why I am not judging the theory of evolution) there are scientists (without great religious agendas) who have brought to light major problems with evolution but are ignored and not given a wide platform to be heard by the powers that be (i.e those that hold the purse bags or who control the PR and what we hear on shows like Science Friday and NOVA.)

But regardless of where we stand intellectually on this issue, we need to keep fully aware that teh powers that be in the Scientific Community (so, I am not talking about every science professor or teacher or reseracher, I am talking about the elite, loud and powerful few) are open materialists and that MUST be automatically distrusted because materialism is just as dogmatic philosophy wherein one says all we can know is what we can observe with our five senses. Everything outside must never be considered.

Never be considered. This is not simply referring to the long-standing understanding that Science cannot attempt to prove God (becuse of the LIMITS of the scientific method) rather it is now saying that the idea of a Supernatural force cannot be CONSIDERED. This means a "good" scientist should never suggest "It could be God... a miracle, something beyond nature, something beyond the scope of the scientific method" and it means that a Scientist in modern times is never allowed to suggest that perhaps God played a hand in this... if you are a materialist.

So, in their minds their MUST be a natural explanation for EVERYTHING. It is not POSSIBLE that there is not one and if we can't find it it only means that our resource are limited... not the scientific method. That is infallible. Catholics have the Pope, Protestants have the Scriptures and Materialists have the Scientific Method. They have abused the scientific method, to be sure, because they no longer limit the method but allow the method to limit humanity.

Following that line of thought, they have JUST AS MUCH of an agenda as fundamentalist Creationists do. Neither starts with the premise of simply looking for truth because in their minds the bible/scientific method is given as the way to find/know all truth. So, for these materialists (and I think it can be shown that most of the establishment of the sicentific community are materilaists), God is not an option, period. You cannot step out of the scientific model and that means that knowledge can ONLY be derived through the Almighty Method. So, let's say that there is a beginning before which there is nothing because God didn't create it and therefore the Scientific Method has reached the end of where it is useful. The materialist cannot belive that unless they start to play with time and explain things away with black holes, etc. There MUST be a natural explanation, always.

Let's Jesus comes and multiplies the loaves of bread. A true materialist isn't going to be convinced it is a supernatural miracle by anything. Even when he can't explain it, he will be convinced that's just because he doesn't have the resources yet to study it properly. But he is convinced that the reason MUST be natural and so will keep searching. And you know what, give him enough time and he will come up with a natural explanation, even if it is actually a miracle. It will be considered theory at first and after people see that there is no other theory available other than "it was a miracle" that theory WILL be considered fact. Not because there is no other explanation but because there is no other NATURAL explanation.

Does anyone see the problem?

Now, again, I will repeat it even though some materialists here will accuse of otherwise. I am NOT saying that this proves evolution wrong. It may be right. But the powers that be that have propagated the theory... THEORY of evolution (and the big bang and so many other utter unknowns) have now called it fact because to question evolution is to leave scientists without a way to leave God out of it altogether.

God is an annoying concept to the materialists. By the way, theistic evolutionists are also annoying to them as well. You are tolerated because you create a bridge to those even more annoying and "ignorant" Creationsists. They put up with you becuase you serve their evangelical pupose... for now. I would wonder how well theistic evolution is put up with in places like England where religion is increasingly mocked as a national past time.

So, to my theistic evolutionist brethern. I am NOT saying you are wrong. Just know that they are not on your side. You are a pawn in a game that THEY have written the rules to.

josh

 

[WarriorAngel]

So are you mad that God is an imaginative being made up from 1000s of years ago by people who thought of religion and wrote down a bunch of stuff? Long story short, the earth was huge at one point in time until it was crushed up by meteors leaving organisms and mixtures of everything. Over a long period of time those organisms evolved and now today we have humans.
So win.

Imgination cannot produce miracles or fulfill over 300 prophesies [out of the hands of the one fulfilling them insomuch as dying exactly as it was foretold] written about 1000's of years earlier.

NOR can it cause secular [non religious] writers to write about it at that time who do not believe in it anyway....but to go along with said imagination tho not believing in it

Atheists think inside the box, the box of sight alone. Sad.

 

[Joshua G.]

It seem to me that, without trying to sound haughty or petty, that materialism does force one to think inside a very narrow box or reason based on reason disallowing themselves to use their imagination to inform their reality. That doesn't make it more or less correct. The vicious circularity of it, however, does make one more prone to insanity (recognized or not).