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More from Pope Francis on the environment and poverty.

setmefree

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Pope Francis has warned “the powerful of the earth” they will answer to God if they fail to protect the environment to ensure the world can feed its population.
Pope says environmental sinners will face God's judgment for world hunger.
“The planet has enough food for all, but it seems that there is a lack of willingness to share it with everyone,” Francis said at a mass to mark the opening of the general assembly of the Catholic charitable organisation Caritas.


Pope Francis plants a flag in the ground on climate change
Read more
“We must do what we can so that everyone has something to eat, but we must also remind the powerful of the earth that God will call them to judgment one day and there it will be revealed if they really tried to provide food for Him in every person and if they did what they could to preserve the environment so that it could produce this food.”

Link to article.
Pope says environmental sinners will face God's judgment for world hunger | World news | The Guardian
 

Fish and Bread

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Good for Pope Francis. I think his language makes clear that it is governments and rich donors who pull the strings of governments that must make sure through a strong social safety net and strong environmental regulations that the poor and the earth are both taken care of. Preserving or expanding Social Security, the Affordable Care Act (or switching to a single-payer government-run system), and welfare programs, and recognizing and taking action to try to limit global climate change, are all moral issues that the government, political donors, and voters should get behind. Pope Francis recognizes that it is not enough to say that this should be left to the private sphere when people know full well that private charities do not have the capacity to address these issues on their own.
 
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Michie

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The human race may (or may not) be responsible for the rise in global temperature over the past several decades. We may be in the hottest years since records were kept, or the observed “pause” in the rise in global temperatures since 1998 may give us pause as to what, precisely, is going on. But one thing is certain: A number of people...
Keeping a cool head on Pope Francis' environment encyclical...
 
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Cardinal Rodriguez Maradiaga rips US critics of Pope's forthcoming encyclical

Catholic World News - May 12, 2015

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=24897


Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga blasted American critics of the environmental views of Pope Francis during a May 12 press conference in Rome.


Cardinal Rodriguez, the president of Caritas International, said that it is “absurd” to criticize a papal encyclical on the environment, since the document has not yet been released. He charged that “movements in the United States” have are rallying the pre-emptive opposition.

“The ideology surrounding environmental issues is too tied to a capitalism that doesn’t want to stop ruining the environment because they don’t want to give up their profits,” said the Honduran cardinal.
Key advisor blasts US criticism to pope’s environmental stance (Crux)

Comeback of Honduran ‘vice-pope’ symbolizes Pope Francis era (Crux)
 
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brewmama

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It's rather a strange statement. How does he think they are related? It's a fact that more CO2 increases plant growth, and warmer climes are very helpful in increasing growing seasons and generally improve life for everyone, especially the poor. It's ice ages that are bad.
 
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Fantine

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These are complex issues (except for the corporate-conned, of course).

GMO's can help provide more food for the world by making plants insect and disease resistant--but what happens to the quality of the food? Are GMO plants responsible for the decline in the bee population? Do our current means of raising chickens and livestock in order to provide more meat affordably put dangerous antibiotics and hormones in our meat? Why are we so cruel to the animals?

Westerners might not want to hear it, but it's not nice to fool Mother Nature. Maybe we should move closer to the diet for a small planet and stop shooting up our livestock during their brief, miserable lives.

I am glad that Pope Francis is addressing them, after consulting with experts in the field (and I'm pretty sure they're not the "experts" who are on the payroll of Shell and Exxon...)
 
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brewmama

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These are complex issues (except for the corporate-conned, of course).

GMO's can help provide more food for the world by making plants insect and disease resistant--but what happens to the quality of the food? Are GMO plants responsible for the decline in the bee population? Do our current means of raising chickens and livestock in order to provide more meat affordably put dangerous antibiotics and hormones in our meat? Why are we so cruel to the animals?

Westerners might not want to hear it, but it's not nice to fool Mother Nature. Maybe we should move closer to the diet for a small planet and stop shooting up our livestock during their brief, miserable lives.

I am glad that Pope Francis is addressing them, after consulting with experts in the field (and I'm pretty sure they're not the "experts" who are on the payroll of Shell and Exxon...)

That's all fine, as long as he doesn't confuse the issue with global warming nonsense.
Your "experts in the field" get WAY more money for their "work" than anyone you imagine is getting money from Shell or Exxon, who, by the way contribute money to green causes also.
 
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Rhamiel

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Good for Pope Francis. I think his language makes clear that it is governments and rich donors who pull the strings of governments that must make sure through a strong social safety net and strong environmental regulations that the poor and the earth are both taken care of. Preserving or expanding Social Security, the Affordable Care Act (or switching to a single-payer government-run system), and welfare programs, and recognizing and taking action to try to limit global climate change, are all moral issues that the government, political donors, and voters should get behind. Pope Francis recognizes that it is not enough to say that this should be left to the private sphere when people know full well that private charities do not have the capacity to address these issues on their own.

we would have to rewrite the Affordable Care act to remove coverage of contraceptives and abortions

these things hurt the soul
and the soul is part of the person
you can not "help the person" while encouraging them to sin
sin by its very definition is harmful to the human person
I think Plato talks about this a bit
 
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Fantine

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we would have to rewrite the Affordable Care act to remove coverage of contraceptives and abortions

these things hurt the soul
and the soul is part of the person
you can not "help the person" while encouraging them to sin
sin by its very definition is harmful to the human person
I think Plato talks about this a bit

I'm not quite sure why the government should change the Affordable Care Act because of one religious denomination's definition of "sin," especially given the First Amendment of the Constitution.

Like it or not, the overwhelming majority of Americans find the idea of eliminating abortions by defunding contraception to be inconsistent, perhaps even schizophrenic.

They are asking the Church how they can be expected to end abortion with their hands tied behind their backs.

Secondarily, they are asking the Church why they are trying to restrict a medication based on a very small minority of the population's belief about "sin."

Should we outlaw pork because observant Muslims and Jews won't eat it?
Should we make circumcision mandatory because of Jewish law?

I think that part of the First Amendment is not imposing a moral view shared by very few on the entire population of the country.
 
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mark46

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I'm not quite sure why the government should change the Affordable Care Act because of one religious denomination's definition of "sin," especially given the First Amendment of the Constitution.
....
Should we outlaw pork because observant Muslims and Jews won't eat it?
Should we make circumcision mandatory because of Jewish law?

agreed
 
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Fish and Bread

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It's rather a strange statement. How does he think they are related? It's a fact that more CO2 increases plant growth, and warmer climes are very helpful in increasing growing seasons and generally improve life for everyone, especially the poor. It's ice ages that are bad.

Well, one of the things that *could* happen with global climate change is actually a long term cooling trend. Now, I know, you might be asking, how in the world does warming up the earth in the short term possibly make it cooler in the long term?

Well, let me give you an example. Towards the end of the last ice age, there were these huge glaciers over much of North America, right? The earth was warming and we were coming to what would under most circumstances have probably been the end to the ice age. However, because it got a bit hotter, those giant glaciers melted en mass, flooding the eastern seaboard of North America with cold water. That cold water brought down temperatures and extended the ice age another 1,000 years or so. Also, incidentally, the water from those glaciers that didn't wind up in the Atlantic Ocean is what formed the Great Lakes, which is kind of a neat fact.

The earth has a lot of delicate wind patterns and patterns of water flow that help heat and cool it (example: the gulf stream) and a lot of weird stuff like that. You heat the temperature a little bit, and those get disrupted, and lots of different things are possible, not many of them good.

However, let's just assume that earth heats up and doesn't result in something like inadvertently causing the next ice age, but just warms up. Okay, well, the glaciers at the poles will melt (Some huge ones already have) and the coastlines will rise. There are dozens of cities around the world with cities barely above sealevel that could be permanently underwater. It could be like the flooding in New Orleans after Katrina, but happening to dozens of cities around the globe at once and being a permanent or semi-permanent state. Think of the massive amounts of refugees and the blow to the world economy with dozens of Katrinas that can't be rebuilt from.

Also, think about the deserts of the world. Rough places. To the extent that we live in them, it is often because we can transport water from other areas. For example, parts of Arizona are desert, and they can have a lot of people in them, because the water is brought down from the Colorado river. Now, let's imagine because of warming temperatures, that desert grows and grows and grows. Higher demand for that water, but less of it. That can't be good. Look at what the extended drought is doing to California right now, which could be related to global climate change, but, even if it isn't, is an example of how things could unfold in various places in the future. Similarly, a lot of areas where a lot of food is grown could become desert and result in a global food shortage.

Now, people might say, hey, Canada should be great farmland eventually, let's grow our food up there and bring it down. And maybe we can do that eventually, but those things don't just happen. That's a massive restructuring of what happens where and it costs money.

Also, rising temperatures can mean things like year round poison ivy. Instead of dying in the winter annual, the plants may just keep going. A lot of things might. Exotic tropical diseases could spread further northward global to areas where they haven't appeared previously.

Meanwhile, these temperature changes are causing instability in general in the climate overall. Things like hurricanes occur out of season and in regions where they don't typically happen. We get randomly colder winters in some places because winds come down from the north sort of get cut off and shifted over, which is tough on humans, animals, and plants, people do die of the cold sometimes and have sky-high heating bills.

And, I would guess what Pope Francis will point out is that the people who things impacts most are the global poor. You know how there are food and water issues in Africa now? Imagine what will happen as the Sahara and other deserts get bigger and bigger and there is less and less food and water? A lot of people will die. That doesn't even count the probabilities that fewer resources will mean longer more frequent and more intense wars to gain or keep possession of them.

What happens if, say, Baltimore, New York, and Miami flood? The well off refugees can pick up their lives elsewhere. But what happens to the poor people with no appreciable skills who've lost everything? They'll be a lot of crsises at once and we don't have the capacity to deal with them all.

So, the best way to deal with global climate change is to stop it from happening to the maximum extent we can. Some now is happening and more will happen and to an extent that is irreversible. But we can take action to lower CO2 emissions so it doesn't get as bad as it could if we leave CO2 unchecked. Many organizations are trying to focus on limiting climate change to 2 degrees Celsius worldwide, which they say might be kind of manageable, there'd be crises, but nothing like the death of a billion people and a global economic collapse or whatever. If the temps rise like 8 degrees Celsius, though, God only knows (Literally, God only knows. There are so many variables with that it's hard to say what will happen from a mortal perspective, except that it would very likely be the biggest furthest reaching longest lasting disaster we've ever seen).
 
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FlaviusAetius

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I'm not quite sure why the government should change the Affordable Care Act because of one religious denomination's definition of "sin," especially given the First Amendment of the Constitution.

Makes for a good American, not particularly a good Catholic...
 
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brewmama

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I'm not quite sure why the government should change the Affordable Care Act because of one religious denomination's definition of "sin," especially given the First Amendment of the Constitution.
Should we outlaw pork because observant Muslims and Jews won't eat it?
Should we make circumcision mandatory because of Jewish law?


Should we make Jews and Muslims buy pork for their employees?
 
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Fish and Bread

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Should we make Jews and Muslims buy pork for their employees?

I think we should make them provide green pieces of paper called dollars that can be redeemed for pork at grocery stores if their employees choose to do so, if that's what you mean. Employers trying to restrict how employees can use their health care is very conceptually similar to employers trying to restrict how employees use their pay checks. It's none of the employer's business, and not the employer's moral responsibility either. The business provides the insurance and then the employees receiving it as compensation can decide where and how they use it. The choices and responsibility then reside with the employees, as it should be, because they are adults being compensated for doing a job. Employers don't get to run your life, you provide hours worked in return for a salary and maybe health care and a pension which you can use however you choose in your free time.
 
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brewmama

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I think we should make them provide green pieces of paper called dollars that can be redeemed for pork at grocery stores if their employees choose to do so, if that's what you mean. Employers trying to restrict how employees can use their health care is very conceptually similar to employers trying to restrict how employees use their pay checks. It's none of the employer's business, and not the employer's moral responsibility either. The business provides the insurance and then the employees receiving it as compensation can decide where and how they use it. The choices and responsibility then reside with the employees, as it should be, because they are adults being compensated for doing a job. Employers don't get to run your life, you provide hours worked in return for a salary and maybe health care and a pension which you can use however you choose in your free time.


That's exactly how it used to be prior to Obamacare, and saying that trying to get back to that is somehow a war on women or contraception is nothing but a lie.

Meanwhile, to get back on topic, here's someone the Pope should be listening to.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...is-is-how-global-warming-should-be-discussed/

http://www.amazon.com/The-Moral-Cas...rtBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RJCLC3RKIMCG9
 
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Fish and Bread

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That's exactly how it used to be prior to Obamacare, and saying that trying to get back to that is somehow a war on women or contraception is nothing but a lie.

A lot of things that weren't right were going on prior to Obamacare. People with pre-existing conditions could be denied the ability to buy health care even when they could afford it and even when their jobs provided it as a benefit, and then go bankrupt, endure unnecessary physical suffering, and even die because they could not afford treatment out of pocket and were not allowed to be on a healthcare plan. Sometimes, even if you and your doctors felt you were healthy when you signed off for insurance or got it through your job, and all the premiums were paid, years later if your doctor figured out that you had a condition that in the opinion of the insurance company began before you got coverage from them, they could decline all of your medical costs associated with it and even strip your coverage, without so much as refunding the previous premiums you paid them to be *insured* in case something like that happened. The poor were in a similar boat.

I even saw a documentary about a guy without insurance who was making furniture with a saw in his garage. He accidentally hacked off two fingers with his saw, got them on ice, and then rushed to the emergency room. Even though the doctors were capable of putting them both back on through surgery, each finger would cost more than $10,000 and they didn't trust him to repay them because he didn't have insurance. They finally agreed to put one of the two fingers back on and asked him to pick one, which he reluctantly did. To this day, he only has four fingers on one hand because he didn't have insurance and the hospital wouldn't reattach the other one. It's not something that can be done later. If you lose a finger or something, you get it on ice and get to the hospital. After too much time passes, it isn't reattachable.

Meanwhile, to get back on topic, here's someone the Pope should be listening to.

If a Pope even starts listening to Glenn Beck extensively, I'm declaring him an anti-Pope and seeing if we can get a new conclave together. ;)
 
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brewmama

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A lot of things that weren't right were going on prior to Obamacare. People with pre-existing conditions could be denied the ability to buy health care even when they could afford it and even when their jobs provided it as a benefit, and then go bankrupt, endure unnecessary physical suffering, and even die because they could not afford treatment out of pocket and were not allowed to be on a healthcare plan. Sometimes, even if you and your doctors felt you were healthy when you signed off for insurance or got it through your job, and all the premiums were paid, years later if your doctor figured out that you had a condition that in the opinion of the insurance company began before you got coverage from them, they could decline all of your medical costs associated with it and even strip your coverage, without so much as refunding the previous premiums you paid them to be *insured* in case something like that happened. The poor were in a similar boat.

I even saw a documentary about a guy without insurance who was making furniture with a saw in his garage. He accidentally hacked off two fingers with his saw, got them on ice, and then rushed to the emergency room. Even though the doctors were capable of putting them both back on through surgery, each finger would cost more than $10,000 and they didn't trust him to repay them because he didn't have insurance. They finally agreed to put one of the two fingers back on and asked him to pick one, which he reluctantly did. To this day, he only has four fingers on one hand because he didn't have insurance and the hospital wouldn't reattach the other one. It's not something that can be done later. If you lose a finger or something, you get it on ice and get to the hospital. After too much time passes, it isn't reattachable.



If a Pope even starts listening to Glenn Beck extensively, I'm declaring him an anti-Pope and seeing if we can get a new conclave together. ;)


Glenn Beck??! I think you missed the point. Probably didn't even look, right?
 
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Fish and Bread

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Glenn Beck??!

That's his website you linked to.

Probably didn't even look, right?

I try to avoid reading or listening to things associated with Glenn Beck given my high blood pressure and impatience with compassionless right-wing nutjobs who distort the truth and believe in crazy conspiracy theories (Here I refer to Beck in particular rather than right-wingers in general).

However, I did watch this video:

 
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brewmama

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That's his website you linked to.



I try to avoid reading or listening to things associated with Glenn Beck given my high blood pressure and impatience with compassionless right-wing nutjobs who distort the truth and believe in crazy conspiracy theories (Here I refer to Beck in particular rather than right-wingers in general).

However, I did watch this video:



Well, since the article had nothing to do with Glenn Beck, this is all irrelevant. But I don't blame you for wanting to stay in the dark. Suit yourself.


Keith Olberman talking about whack jobs! That's funny!
 
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