More and More Complaining

[seeingeyes]

Just going with the theme here lately.

What do you think about the idea that the 'trends' we are seeing towards people shirking responsibility are more of 'trend' in venting every problem to the world (really, the whole world, now that everyone is on the internet)?

It seems evident that we are all more likely to point out the flaws of others than those within ourselves (by default, but as we grow that can change...a bit) so an increase in communication is pretty much guaranteed to bring an increase in complaints even if one's 'quality of life' is the same in every other regard.

Thoughts?

 

[ValleyGal]

Over and over again, I hear people saying that people put others down and complain about others (and not self) because they need to feel better about themselves.

While this may be true, I would go further and say it's a character defect. Here are some common defects of character that go along with complaining about others (and not yourself = trying to take the speck out of their eye but fail to see the log in your own):
Self-centredness - my own need is more important than your need
Blaming - s/he started it (or it's his/her fault I'm mad)
Self-justification - a type of dishonest thinking that defends my own behaviour
Pride - excessive and unrealistic assessment of myself, at someone else's expense
False humility - low self esteem and inability to recognize your own strengths, cloaked in sweetness or submissiveness
Impulsiveness - acting or talking without thinking about the consequences
Envy/jealousy - wanting something someone else has
Phoniness - pretending to be someone I'm not; masks
Conning/manipulation - a variety of methods to get others to comply with what I want
People pleasing - Being wishy-washy, compliant or passive
Self pity - feeling sorry for self
Perfectionism - having unrealistic expectations of self and/or others
Intolerance - being unable to accept others as they are; narrow minded
Sarcasm - a form of contempt, and an extension of intolerance; caustic humour
taking things for granted - ingratitude; failing to notice others when they deserve recognition
Impatience - Inability to delay gratification, expecting others to perform flawlessly and immediately
Withdrawing - keeping my problems to myself
Avoidance - ignoring problems, conflict, feelings, etc whenever self worth is threatened
Violence - acting out anger either physically or verbally
Gossipping - putting others down while not in their presence - often done as a way to build self up
Lying - consciously deceiving others, usually to appear more competent than you are

This list is not exhaustive, but it is the one used by Freedom Session (I shortened the descriptions). I think complaining is a result of several of these, but the problem is that someone who complains is typically not able or willing to acknowledge that the character defect is within themselves, and not someone else - especially if there is a lot of self-importance (narcissism, not just pride) that goes along with it.

With the anonymity of the computer and forums like these, it becomes really easy to vent all these complaints. Unfortunately, venting negative complaints without some way of balancing them out, will colour people's thinking, and then rather than "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." (Phil 4:8), people start to dwell on the negatives - and this is one of the principles that is detrimental to marriage...in a bad way.

Imo, we need to never mind focusing on other's character defects and faults and sins and quirks, and start focusing on how to deal with our own character defects.

 

[Annessa3]

we all have all of these, and have no doubt expressed them. It's part of being human.

the Good News is that we have the Perfect Example of Jesus and if we are willing to set our eyes on Him, those pesky character flaws gradually disappear.

 

[ValleyGal]

I think there is more to dealing with character flaws than people think. Yes, fixing our eyes on Christ is a huge part of it, but we need to go in and heal the reasons for them in the first place. And yes, we all have all of them, but typically, we will have 3 or 4 that stand out more than the rest. For example, my primary character defect is withdrawing. Focusing on Jesus is not going to take that away. But understanding the root of the pain that caused me to withdraw is imperative. So when I did the healing work, I dug deeply into my past and uncovered a theme where people deeply hurt me when I let them in to a certain point. So I stopped letting anyone in past that point, and would withdraw because I could never measure up or live up to other's expectations. Iow, I was only good if I was good, and when I expressed anything negative, I was rejected. So instead of being rejected by others, I took responsibility for it by withdrawing (a form of self rejection). So I am far more likely to withdraw than I am to gossip or lie, for example.

The important piece to remember about this is to examine self, not to sit around pointing at others' defects. In fact, we are called to think more highly of others than we do ourselves, to humble ourselves, to honour and love others above ourselves. Kinda hard to do those things when we are so focused on complaining about others's defects, lack of love, lack of humility, etc.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Just going with the theme here lately.

What do you think about the idea that the 'trends' we are seeing towards people shirking responsibility are more of 'trend' in venting every problem to the world (really, the whole world, now that everyone is on the internet)?

It seems evident that we are all more likely to point out the flaws of others than those within ourselves (by default, but as we grow that can change...a bit) so an increase in communication is pretty much guaranteed to bring an increase in complaints even if one's 'quality of life' is the same in every other regard.

Thoughts?

Are you complaining about the complaining??

 

[seeingeyes]

Are you complaining about the complaining??

Not at all! Complain away! Just know that I will be analyzing your complaints. Muahaha

 

[mkgal1]

I believe that when people cannot resolve issues they have with others in their lives (typically spouses on this forum).....they turn to others out of desperation. That's where the complaining comes from......but it wouldn't be present if there weren't character defects (like VG is saying). Sometimes the defects *are* the complainer's (and they refuse to face that).....but other times the other person (the one not posting) is the one with the defects that are blocking resolution.

I also think it's human nature to seek out acceptance of what they're feeling.....and to avoid rejection.

It's a pessimistic person that vents every little issue they have (my opinion).

I think this blog has some great insight along these lines (how opinions get in the way of connection):

Having an opinion has become a weary endeavor.

That’s not just true on the internet. It’s true every where.

It seems that we as a society are plagued by a tyranny of the emotionally reactive and immature. Emotional maturity can be described as the ability to manage one’s emotions and maintaining relational connection in the midst of conflict and differing opinions. The emotionally mature person is able to differentiate themselves by expressing their opinions, staying relationally connected when others disagree, and not demand others to share their beliefs. Unfortunately, we are living in a day and age where those who have that ability are endangered species. Very few people can disagree and remain relationally connected.

Jesus had the ability to make this space around himself. It is the only way he could sit at the table with Pharisees who judged him, cross-examined him, and were suspicious of him and, while still at their table, make space for a prostitute to anoint his feet with oil and tears. It is the space that made it possible for fisherman, tax collectors, zealots and hot heads to be a part of his chosen group of twelve. Jesus was comfortable creating space for the other in his midst.

This is the kind of space we all want the church to be. There is no shortage of criticism for the lack of safe space in the church. But the reality is that space for differing opinions and ideas will exist in the church only when safe space exists around individuals. And its existence is dependent on me. On you. On us.

In a Christian context we might call this a community of grace and truth. A place where truth can be found while exercising grace toward one another.

Maybe it wouldn’t be so weary to hold an opinion when surrounded by grace and truth.

We may actually find it life-giving.

- See more at: When Having an Opinion is a Weary Endeavor | From One Degree to Another | Nate Pyle

 

[mkgal1]

Are you complaining about the complaining??

 

[seeingeyes]

I also think it's human nature to seek out acceptance of what they're feeling.....and to avoid rejection.

My overarching point was that seeking out acceptance by finding common complaints is more culturally acceptable now than it was, say, 50 years ago. There was still a place for stoicism back then. We admired people who could 'keep it together' and now we admire people who 'let it all hang out'.

Not saying that's bad or good, just different.

I think this blog has some great insight along these lines (how opinions get in the way of connection):

Ooo That looks good. I'll have to read it through when I have more time.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Not at all! Complain away! Just know that I will be analyzing your complaints. Muahaha

I may have to file a complaint...

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I may have to file a complaint...

I'm filing a complaint about you filing a complaint about the complaints of complaining.

 

[mkgal1]

My overarching point was that seeking out acceptance by finding common complaints is more culturally acceptable now than it was, say, 50 years ago. There was still a place for stoicism back then. We admired people who could 'keep it together' and now we admire people who 'let it all hang out'.

Not saying that's bad or good, just different.

Absolutely! I think that's caused our (my?) generation to not really know how to handle other people's strong opinions (nor do we quite know how or when to voice our strong opinions either). They just get thrown out there in the name of "truth" ("I'm just being honest"). There's a line between honesty and word vomit

 

[mkgal1]

Another thing occurred to me. Since it was admired when people could "keep it together".....that often meant thoughts and opinions (of *all* sorts) were often kept to one's self (so as to not rock the boat).

"Complaining" is sort of a subjective word.....don't you think (kind of like "nagging" it carries a negative connotation)?

I've noticed that what often also goes along with the attitude of "I was just being honest" is also (not always....but lots of the time) the accompanying attitude of "I'm a positive person......I reject all negativity" (and what that often is---are opinions they don't agree with--*that* is "negativity" opposing their "positive" outlook.....even if their "positive" opinion could be offensive to others).

I'm trying to come up with an example besides what I'm specifically thinking of (right now I can't).

 

[seeingeyes]

Another thing occurred to me. Since it was admired when people could "keep it together".....that often meant thoughts and opinions (of *all* sorts) were often kept to one's self (so as to not rock the boat).

"Complaining" is sort of a subjective word.....don't you think (kind of like "nagging" it carries a negative connotation)?

I've noticed that what often also goes along with the attitude of "I was just being honest" is also (not always....but lots of the time) the accompanying attitude of "I'm a positive person......I reject all negativity" (and what that often is---are opinions they don't agree with--*that* is "negativity" opposing their "positive" outlook.....even if their "positive" opinion could be offensive to others).

I'm trying to come up with an example besides what I'm specifically thinking of (right now I can't).

Yes! "Complaining" is "venting" is "telling my side of the story" is "being honest". It just kinda depends what culture you're standing in at the moment.

I think our values about expressing ourselves have changed. That's a positive in some cases and a negative in others, but on the whole, if you get more people talking, you'll get more complaints of all kinds (all other things being equal).

 

[akmom]

"I'm a positive person......I reject all negativity" (and what that often is---are opinions they don't agree with....*that* is "negativity" opposing their "positive" outlook).

Yeah, that's an obnoxious way to reject opposition.

I guess I don't see the problem with complaint threads, simply because it is the anonymous Internet. You can test these statements and get a reaction that doesn't actually "count." If I say, "I'm thinking about saying such-and-such to my husband," and I get ten responses saying what an awful approach that would be, well now, I've just spared myself from saying something that would likely upset my husband. And, less often, I'll find a suggestion that is more tactful. So is it really a problem that people are coming out with these complaints, simply because the Internet is available? It seems to me that it could preempt some real-life conflicts.

Personally I don't remember getting any helpful marriage advice, but I have certainly gotten helpful advice in talking to co-workers. The communication in my marriage is pretty good, but my ability to fully relate to strangers and all their diverse personalities is far more limited. And this helps.

 

[seeingeyes]

Yeah, that's an obnoxious way to reject opposition.

I guess I don't see the problem with complaint threads, simply because it is the anonymous Internet. You can test these statements and get a reaction that doesn't actually "count." If I say, "I'm thinking about saying such-and-such to my husband," and I get ten responses saying what an awful approach that would be, well now, I've just spared myself from saying something that would likely upset my husband. And, less often, I'll find a suggestion that is more tactful. So is it really a problem that people are coming out with these complaints, simply because the Internet is available? It seems to me that it could preempt some real-life conflicts.

Personally I don't remember getting any helpful marriage advice, but I have certainly gotten helpful advice in talking to co-workers. The communication in my marriage is pretty good, but my ability to fully relate to strangers and all their diverse personalities is far more limited. And this helps.

Hmmm... Internet as social rehearsal. I've never thought about that before.

 

[Hetta]

I think that people still complained 50 years ago, and even 500 years ago. I don't know about 500 years ago, but 50 years ago (when I was a baby), people had closer knit groups of friends or family, who they would search out and talk to. Before the internet, I would talk to people that I knew and really trusted about problems that I was having. I still do actually. My mom's generation relied on their girlfriends and family, and I think that was probably the most common way in which previous generations vented about their problems.

 

[seeingeyes]

I think that people still complained 50 years ago, and even 500 years ago. I don't know about 500 years ago, but 50 years ago (when I was a baby), people had closer knit groups of friends or family, who they would search out and talk to. Before the internet, I would talk to people that I knew and really trusted about problems that I was having. I still do actually. My mom's generation relied on their girlfriends and family, and I think that was probably the most common way in which previous generations vented about their problems.

Yeah, I think we hear more "complaining" from strangers these days. I'm still the sort to keep it in the family, so to speak, which makes me practically repressed.

 

[akmom]

The one drawback to real-life confidants is the risk of them sharing private matters or meddling in them. This happens even unintentionally. I remember telling my sister when I discovered a person using drugs who was in a position that they really, really shouldn't be, and whether it was morally necessary to report it or confront them. Well, a few years later, she mentioned to me that she heard "so and so" uses drugs, but couldn't remember where she heard it. (Well, she heard it from me. If she can't even remember that she heard it from me, she can't be expected to remember that she was told in confidence!) People's brains don't always retain things the way we want, even if they meant to.

And I won't even get started on my mother's not-so-subtle intervention efforts the moment she finds out anything about anyone in her life that concerns her!

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I also think people complain more and "in the name of truth" more because its online. We feel more comfy behind a screen often. Or at least a good amount of people are. Some like my one uncles has no problem telling someone how he feels whether its online or off.