Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Moses taught that if a young man sleeps with a virgin, he must seek to marry her, and that if her father refuses to let him marry her he still must pay the dowry.
The Bible and the author the Spirit of Truth are the best teacher on ethics.
Verse? I know the next bit you're talking about, but it wasn't preceded by "and things should be the way they originally were" or anything like that. It was in specific reference to marriage and divorce.
Israel was instructed not to "man-catch" as it were. That's it. They could still buy slaves from foreigners who probably did the "man-catching" thing and they enslaved the populaces of some of the cities they sacked (when they didn't kill everyone anyways). Fathers could sell their daughters into permanent slavery (not talking about arranged marriages, I'm talking about slavery). Etc. The OT is not the place to go to show the Bible has a problem with slavery.
By the 1st Cent, porneia (at least in the Jewish culture) included a number of illicit sexual acts, include pre-marital intercourse. When a NT author used the word, did he mean "illicit sex according to whatever definition your culture has" or "illicit sex, meaning the actions I'm thinking of." I'd guess that the second meaning was intended. In that case, the NT probably does assume that all sex outside of marriage is condemned, though I wouldn't want to stake very much on the assertion that Jesus himself used that word. (At least the English translation is used only once, in Mark 7:21 and parallel, and given the lack of quotation marks in the original it's not clear whether Jesus said it or it's part of an editor's explanation.)
That's a fun one. You know that applies to rape too? Since you've mentioned the oral tradition, I'd point out that in the Talmud when it is a case of rape the girl must marry the rapist, but if it's consensual then the father or the rapist can say no. He still has to pay the father no matter what though. Which also means that not every time a man has sex with a virgin is he required to marry her. Unless you want to throw out the Talmud, but then a man can still have sex with women who has already had sex. For instance, divorcees can hook up.
When did all sex outside of marriage start being condemned to interpret it that way though? Personally, if the NT uses the words "sexual immorality" my mind goes straight to the list of "laws concerning sexual immorality" but if there's something else I'm open to that. I just haven't seen it yet.
Well, you don't seem to understand the purpose of the OT Law and why it was given to the Jews as compared to what is written in Genesis.
The short answer is yes. I explained the passage to you but you are unable to see it as anything other than a contradiction because the explanation satisfies the 'natural man' in you. 1 Corinthians 2:14 says that to the 'natural man' (those without the Holy Spirit) all scripture is foolishness.
Only if their 'scripture' were of God which it is not.......
You don't seem to catch on with the concept of justice or fair play and that Jesus revised the law because it was given to hard hearted people. You deliberately ignore things like the oral traditions, the Spirit of prophecy, good examples for record like Ruth, the apostles the gifts and the Spirit of truth.
Fornicate meant sex outside of marriage; guess what?.....it still means that today.
It shows so much hard heartedness and lack of conversion to the glory revealed to them, after which they still grumbled. But from Moses' command comes a principle still kept today when fathers say, "Son, if you have made her pregnant then do the right thing and marry her."
Which part of the Talmud are you referring to, the Mishnah or the Gemara? And why this fixation with OT? As Christians we have a new covenant with God and it is spelled out in the Gospels and the rest of the NT.
TDNT says in the period between the OT and NT it widened to include all sex outside marriage. They cite a number of examples, but without tracking down the originals it's hard for me to assess whether they're right. Most commentators seem to agree, though, so I assume they're right.
Abe L did not want heart conversion and had the power to enforce his policy through victory in war right? I did not learn US history. Moses depended on the Hebrews.
Israel depended on Moses for righteousness and the favour of God... but Moses depended on Israel for obedience and service, food and protection unless one considers the part of that time when God wanted to start again, just with Moses.
