Morality

[dayhiker]

Also everyone is created in the image of God and that is the main source of love people have for each other wither they are Christian or not. I see Christianity as mainly connecting us to God thru Jesus Christ. That new birth creates a new desire to love God and enjoy His presence. From seeing how nice it is to be loved unconditionally many Christians start to love others unconditionally. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way for all who find Christ.

So its my observation that there are a lot of people who tie into the goodness of God that is within them from being created in the image of God and do good. As Christians we have the new birth and the Holy Spirit that can empower us to love and have a pure heart at a whole new level.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

How can an atheist be "moral"?...because without God, morality becomes whatever you want it to be...

Every person on earth, regardless of belief or non belief, has the propensity to be moral and are so at times ; the reason is because we ALL have a God prescribed Moral Conscience (moral oughtness) which if we dont suppress ....can be used to exhibit a moral choice. What many people desire however, is, the total freedom to excersise morality if and when they want to so as to coincide with their lifestyle choices .

As the persons heart becomes quickened to the things of God , that person better demonstrates morality and noble things thru a changed inner nature of God abiding in his Soul.

 

[blackribbon]

Romans 2:14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.

There is no culture on earth that says that killing is okay. Rape and incest, child pornography and cannibalism are universal evils for the vast majority of cultures, regardless of their belief in the God of the Bible.

.

This is not true. There are plenty of societies throughout history that are perfectly okay with a variety of killings and rape. There is a reason why God felt the need to write down the "new rules" for moral behavior. I'm too tired too look up some of these but I know some Roman societies (or was it Greek) that allowed people to discard their children. Cannibalism...well, the name came from societies that were okay with this. There are even societies that accept rape even in modern times. Men having multiple wives is practiced today. So I disagree that "morality" can exist without God. The basis of most American's idea of morality is a Judeo-Christian based...so they have picked a God-based standard to use as "morality".

 

[dayhiker]

As I remember studying anthropology the societies that allowed killing, it was directed toward enemies or at lest those outside their group. Same with cannibalism and rape.
I much prefer Jesus' love your enemies. I think Gandi and Martin Luther King are excellent examples of this working to change ones enemies and bring them thru making them feel guilty in how they are treating fellow humans.
I think that works in open societies that accept the humanity of all people quite well and is by far the best method of change.
But closed societies that see themselves as better, superior to others. I'm not sure that it works very well. I don't think German under Hitler or Japan would have felt guilty for what they did as all most all the people they killed in WW2 didn't resist them. I believe a very large proportion of the people they killed were not on the battle fields but in concentration camps, on death marches or were prisoners of war. Loving ones enemies in these closed societies doesn't seem to build the same guilt as in open societies. Christianity also has a very big role to play in being able to speak conviction to those abusing others with their power.

As for poly relationships, I believe those can be loving/moral or not loving/ not moreal depending on how each person is treated. So I don't see monogamy as moral and poly as unmoral. I find it much more moral to be honest about having more than one relationship that saying one is monogamous and committing adultery.

 

[Faith In God]

This is not true. There are plenty of societies throughout history that are perfectly okay with a variety of killings and rape. There is a reason why God felt the need to write down the "new rules" for moral behavior. I'm too tired too look up some of these but I know some Roman societies (or was it Greek) that allowed people to discard their children. Cannibalism...well, the name came from societies that were okay with this. There are even societies that accept rape even in modern times. Men having multiple wives is practiced today. So I disagree that "morality" can exist without God. The basis of most American's idea of morality is a Judeo-Christian based...so they have picked a God-based standard to use as "morality".

Plenty of societies?? Could you list some please?
Sure there are some but these are an exception to the general rule.

Cannibalism. Again, cultures that practiced cannibalism, even in ancient times, Pagan's viewed cannibalism (drinking blood, eating people) as disgusting and an affront to nature/god/the gods. These were exceptions to the rule.

Incidentally, I'm not talking about America, I'm talking about the world.

 

[blackribbon]

For a start
Just child sacrifices: Aztecs, Incas, Moche (Peru), Ammonites, Carthage, Cannanites...heck, even Abraham was willing to sacrific Isaac...

Modern times: how about how widows (and their children) are treated in India?
Shunned from society, widows flock to city to die - CNN.com

I can go on...but I am tired and have another long day of clinicals tomorrow. Later, I will add to the list of atrocities that non-Christian societies find acceptable and "moral" behavior.

 

[MorkandMindy]

It's down to playing with categories. Every person history gives a good write up to is considered at least nominally Christian, and those condemned by history as atheists or non Christian.

The leading founding fathers were what we would class as pantheists and are now taken to be Christian by some, and Adolf Hitler who quoted the Bible and had extensive backing from the Church is counted as an atheist and so on.

The abuse of categories might be called the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy though I may be wrong because I don't know much about philosophy. It is so extensive it will be a job to get this thread sorted out.


As a Christian I regarded myself as innocent of all evil, because I was a member of a semi closed Brethren and I wasn't aware any of us ever did anything much wrong. I claimed to be a member of the World's largest religion, a Christian, with well over a billion members (2.2 billion and growing especially in Africa) with a continuous history going back to Jesus, but when the Inquisition is mentioned I would respond that was Catholics and they aren't true Christians and so on. All based on the inconsistent use of categories.

 

[blackribbon]

I wasn't even saying Christian...I was saying that you have to have a "god" in order to have a measure to gauge your "morality" by...it can't exist in a vacuum..it isn't an absolute