Morality of Whaling (possible triggers)

[AS4JC91]

I just want to know how you guys feel about it?

In Australia news is everywhere about how a Japanese whaling ship sliced a Sea Shepherd boat in half. It got me thinking.

I want to put politics aside. I don't want a debate on who's fault it was. I just want to ask what your opinion is about God's stance on whaling.

I've had many pro-whalers (they do exist here in Australia despite it being very much frowned upon) saying that it's vital research, that one is to not value animals over people, God commands us to eat both vegetation and meat (my former-pastor even said that vegetarinism was of Eastern religion thus sinful ) and one goldie: If whale blubber held the key to cure cancer, would you still stop whaling ?

I belive that God doesn't like extinction (it's part of what happens in a fallen world) so when animals are placed on the endangered species list, like most whales are, one is to protect them. We are, after all, to be good stewards of the Earth. It's not ours; we're the tenants and God is the landlord.
I think hunting animals to extinction is a product of greed. It's like the mana story: those who took excessive amounts and at times when God said not too, they were dealt with harshly. Whalers do take in excessive amounts of whales. I am puzzled as to why over 1000 whales is needed.

So what do you think? Please keep it civil!

 

[DaisyDay]

Are whales much different than dolphins, culturally speaking?

PhysOrg.com) -- Scientists studying dolphin behavior have suggested they could be the most intelligent creatures on Earth after humans, saying the size of their brains in relation to body size is larger than that of our closest relatives, the chimpanzees, and their behaviors suggest complex intelligence. One scientist said they should therefore be treated as "non-human persons" and granted rights as individuals.

The behavioral studies showed dolphins (especially the bottlenose) have distinct personalities and self-awareness, and they can think about the future. The research also confirmed dolphins have complex social structures, with individuals co-operating to solve difficult problems or to round up shoals of fish to eat, and with new behaviors being passed from one dolphin to another.


Link

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[lawtonfogle]

In terms of whales being animals, whaling is no different than any other form of hunting, which is ok up to the point where we endanger the species (unless, you think all hunting is not). Personally, I do not make a strong stance on hunting, except that hunting for sport and not food (as compared to hunting for sport and food) does not settle well with me if you are harming animals (or humans, in case someone really needed me to add that). Of course, I have no problems if you shoot some clay pigeons or such.

In terms of animals on the border of intelligence, I do think we should not hunt them, and treat them with at least as much respect as we generally treat cats and dogs, if not more so.

 

[Freysinn]

my stance on whaling is that it's just like all other types of hunting. But of course i dont think we should hunt them to the point of extinction, i dont think i could find anyone that thinks we should.

When it comes to whaling a lot of people have a double standard, they dont care about fishing or eating cattle, but when people are whaling it's a deadly sin! I really think its a bit dumb and i dont think that people have any right to condem whaling as long as the whaling is responsable, like in Iceland we have a quota of 150 whales a year which a lot of people would consider responsable keeping in mind that the fin whale is not endangered in between Greenland and Iceland.

 

[Mystman]

In terms of animals on the border of intelligence, I do think we should not hunt them, and treat them with at least as much respect as we generally treat cats and dogs, if not more so.

Side-note: pigs are sometimes described as being more intelligent than either cats or dogs, yet many people have no problem treating them as emotionless bacon-plants. (both type of plants!)

Anyway. The idea that the Japanese whaling is for "science" is ridiculous. They may do some measurements to keep up appearances, but the main reason for the whaling is that the Japanese love their sushi.

In theory, killing a small number of whales isn't any worse than killing a small number of cows/pigs (as long as the killing happens quickly, something which isn't always the case with whaling afaik). The problem is that the populations now are really pretty small compared to what they used to be. And sure, we could make up a number of animals that could be killed "responsibly" to keep the population intact, but such quotas are almost sure to be exceeded, and unexpected events could mean that the "safe limit" is changed or otherwise reached.

As an example.. there used to be ~300.000 blue whales. Now there are ~10.000 at the most. We might decide that 1000 animals is a "safe" limit for the population size, and allow the killing of 9000 more animals. The limit is exceeded by 500, an unexpected disease shows up and kills 400, and the last 100 individuals live in too small groups to produce genetically variable offspring, inbreeding occurs, the new generation is weak and dies...

..and tada, we've just hunted another species to extinction.

 

[Chesterton]

You insensitive creeps. Don't you know whales are living? And don't you know all the quaggas are rotting in their graves? Not a day goes by when I'm not brought to tears by the remembrance that there are no quaggas around. You ingrates! You fools! You don't even know how your life is degraded by the absence of the quagga!

P.S. When the last whale is killed, would someone please PM me so that I'll know that it happened?

 

[Beechwell]

I think there are two aspects to consider here: Endangering the species, and the morality of killing an intelligent, self-aware being.

I'd say it is wrong to hunt if it endangeres the species. But of course for species not vital to an important eco-system the moral foundation of this opinion is debatable. But as I've heard (and as Freysinn mentions) some species of whales have recovered a lot in numbers, and for those it seems fair to reevaluate the ban on whaling. Unfortunately it is often hard to tell what information is only pro-whaling or anti-whaling propaganda.

The morality of killing a self-aware being seems a bit trickier to me. I just deleted a whole paragraph pondering that question .
Suffice it to say that I do believe that we need to grant some right to live to sufficiently self-aware animals (on an individual basis). I don't know what the exact criteria for "sufficiently self-aware" would be, but I think that certain species of dolphins and possibly some apes should qualify.

What I don't like is the appeal to emotion approach Greepeace and other organizations tend to use in this debate. If there is no danger of extinction and no "intelligence" reason to prohibit whaling of a certain species of whale, then it should be as morally right to hunt them as hunting a deer or possum.
If we are more concerned with the fate of baby-seals than that of chicken and pigs, then something is seriously wrong.

 

[savvy]

Basically, is whale meat so important that it is necessary to hunt this species into oblivion? Probably not. If a whale species is endangered, it seems irresponsible to hunt them. Once they're hunted into extinction, the whaling industry is destroyed, anyway. I agree that hunting endangered animals should be prohibited. Once their population hits a certain safe mark again, maybe some restrained whaling could be allowed.

BTW, about the dolphins....I was watching a show about them, and apparently, they like to gang rape females. I feel that rapist dolphins should receive the death penalty

 

[Washington]

You insensitive creeps. Don't you know whales are living? And don't you know all the quaggas are rotting in their graves? Not a day goes by when I'm not brought to tears by the remembrance that there are no quaggas around. You ingrates! You fools! You don't even know how your life is degraded by the absence of the quagga!

While I consider the extinction of any species to be deplorable---there may be exceptions---just how is my life degraded by the extinction of the quagga?

 

[Zebra1552]

I just want to know how you guys feel about it?

In Australia news is everywhere about how a Japanese whaling ship sliced a Sea Shepherd boat in half. It got me thinking.

I want to put politics aside. I don't want a debate on who's fault it was. I just want to ask what your opinion is about God's stance on whaling.

I've had many pro-whalers (they do exist here in Australia despite it being very much frowned upon) saying that it's vital research, that one is to not value animals over people, God commands us to eat both vegetation and meat (my former-pastor even said that vegetarinism was of Eastern religion thus sinful ) and one goldie: If whale blubber held the key to cure cancer, would you still stop whaling ?

I belive that God doesn't like extinction (it's part of what happens in a fallen world) so when animals are placed on the endangered species list, like most whales are, one is to protect them. We are, after all, to be good stewards of the Earth. It's not ours; we're the tenants and God is the landlord.
I think hunting animals to extinction is a product of greed. It's like the mana story: those who took excessive amounts and at times when God said not too, they were dealt with harshly. Whalers do take in excessive amounts of whales. I am puzzled as to why over 1000 whales is needed.

So what do you think? Please keep it civil!

If you can't figure out with the dolphin and orca I've got on my avatar, WHALING IS WRONG. Period. No if's and's or but's. Why is it wrong? Because there's no need for it! None! Research is nothing but an excuse to eat the meat. It is NOT a good use of what God's entrusted to us. Whales are majestic creatures that are doing bad enough already without us killing them off too. We dump loads of junk into the ocean, send boats every which way, and torture them with sonar, and then we want to also hunt them down?

As for dolphins, they slaughter them in Japan too. The Cove attests to this. Not cool. I do NOT like Japan or its leaders because of this.

And I'm going to send this before I get any more upset.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

Lets just say I'm much more fond of the Sea Shepherd than I was before the show.

 

[Washington]

If you can't figure out with the dolphin and orca I've got on my avatar, WHALING IS WRONG. Period. No if's and's or but's. Why is it wrong? Because there's no need for it! None! Research is nothing but an excuse to eat the meat. It is NOT a good use of what God's entrusted to us. Whales are majestic creatures that are doing bad enough already without us killing them off too. We dump loads of junk into the ocean, send boats every which way, and torture them with sonar, and then we want to also hunt them down?

As for dolphins, they slaughter them in Japan too. The Cove attests to this. Not cool. I do NOT like Japan or its leaders because of this.

And I'm going to send this before I get any more upset.

Should we conclude then that you're opposed to killing any animal for food?

 

[DaisyDay]

BTW, about the dolphins....I was watching a show about them, and apparently, they like to gang rape females. I feel that rapist dolphins should receive the death penalty

Television News @ nationalgeographic.com

That does not make them unlike people.

 

[Freysinn]

FISHING IS WRONG. Period. No if's and's or but's. Why is it wrong? Because there's no need for it! None! Research is nothing but an excuse to eat the meat. It is NOT a good use of what God's entrusted to us. Fish are majestic creatures that are doing bad enough already without us killing them off too. We dump loads of junk into the ocean, send boats every which way, and torture them with sonar, and then we want to also hunt them down?

As for chicken, they slaughter them in Japan too. Not cool. I do NOT like Japan or its leaders because of this.

And I'm going to send this before I get any more upset.


Now whales on the other hand are delicious, i can buy them in my local store, they're great raw with wasaby. You guys should try

 

[Zebra1552]

Should we conclude then that you're opposed to killing any animal for food?

No, you should conclude that I'm opposed to figuratively kicking an animal while it's down, which is exactly what whaling is. I detailed that. You ARE aware that whales are endangered, right?

 

[Freysinn]

You ARE aware that whales are endangered, right?

All whales are endangered?

 

[TerranceL]

Lets just say I'm much more fond of the Sea Shepherd than I was before the show.

Why do you support piracy?

 

[Zebra1552]

All whales are endangered?

Most are- sperm, right, humpback, fin, blue, and bowback whales are all endangered.

WWF - Whales and Dolphins - Old dangers persist, new ones have appeared

 

[SithDoughnut]

No, you should conclude that I'm opposed to figuratively kicking an animal while it's down, which is exactly what whaling is. I detailed that. You ARE aware that whales are endangered, right?

I've always been interested in the moral perspective of this. We're quite happy to kill and eat animals, but suddenly the moment they become endangered we want to protect them. I've always found that a rather hypocritical perspective, even if I can't help but subscribe to it myself.

The only reason we seem to care about endangered species is because we want to have lots of different types of animal to look at. Or maybe we just feel bad and we think that by saving the whale we can make up for the fact that we quite happily killed them and ate them and will again the moment the population reaches sustainable levels.

We're not stopping people kicking a figurative animal while it's down, we're just keeping them alive for our own satisfaction.

 

[Zebra1552]

I've always been interested in the moral perspective of this. We're quite happy to kill and eat animals, but suddenly the moment they become endangered we want to protect them. I've always found that a rather hypocritical perspective, even if I can't help but subscribe to it myself.

The only reason we seem to care about endangered species is because we want to have lots of different types of animal to look at. Or maybe we just feel bad and we think that by saving the whale we can make up for the fact that we quite happily killed them and ate them and will again the moment the population reaches sustainable levels.

We're not stopping people kicking a figurative animal while it's down, we're just keeping them alive for our own satisfaction.

I don't think it's right to kill whales period. They're a valuable part of our ecosystem and they can't be farmed like fish, chickens, or cows. To my knowledge, whale meat doesn't contain anything that cannot be found elsewhere as far as diet is concerned. It's simply not necessary. And it doesn't take good care of Earth's resources.