• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The moon, this season has been about the biggest Christmas light one could imagine. This year, some 2007 years after the celebrated birth of Christ, it was a full moon on Christmas Eve.

As we know, man has walked there, and, of the men to do, some were Christians. This hearkens us back to another Christmas Eve, in 1968, when the words beamed to earth, from the first first manned vehicle to circle the moon were these ..

"Bill Anders read Genesis 1:1-4. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, 'Let there be light:' and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

Jim Lovell took the next four verses. "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And God said, 'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.' And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

Frank Borman finished with, "And God said, 'Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear': and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas: and God saw that it was good."

http://chi.gospelcom.net/DAILYF/2002/12/daily-12-24-2002.shtml

Another of the few men on earth that walked on the moon, had communion on the moon, but kept it hush hush, for fear of being sued....

"A suit had later been brought by Madalyn Murray O'Hair, an atheist. The suit was dismissed by the Supreme Court due to lack of jurisdiction. Fearing a similar suit, when Buzz Aldrin took communion on the lunar surface shortly after his landing on Apollo 11, he kept his actions secret for many years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_8_Genesis_Reading

Another man that walked the moon, found renewed faith in God, and made several attempted climbs of Mount Ararat, looking for some proof of Noah's ark. One time, he had to be rescued, and helped down the mountain.

James Irwin was repeatedly drawn to Mount Ararat in hopes of finding Ark wreckage. Through his High Flight Foundation, a non-profit evangelical organization based in Colorado Springs, the former astronaut made six treks to Mount Ararat in an unsuccessful quest to find remains of the ark.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/noahs_ark_010823-1.html


A few quotes from him are..

"Jesus Christ waking on the earth is more important than man walking on the moon"


"It was my experience in exploring the moon on the Apollo 15 mission that moved me to devote the rest of my life to spreading the good news of Jesus Christ."

" I felt the power of God as I've never felt it before.

“While on the moon, at the end of the first day exploring the rugged lunar highlands, I was reminded of my favorite Biblical passage from Psalms. While speaking by radio to Mission Control in Houston, I began quoting the passage, ‘I'll look into the hills from whence cometh my help,’"

The earth really struck them as beautiful.

In Irwin’s book, “To Rule the Night,”he described his view of Earth from the moon, which looked like “a beautiful, fragile Christmas tree ornament hanging against the blackness of space.” The beauty of the mountains of the moon moved Irwin, and he said he felt the presence of God during his moonwalk. “The moon has a powerful force ; it seems to affect the feelings and the behavior of everybody. I cannot imagine a holier place,” he wrote.

Apparently, there is something very very spiritual about the moon.


What would Christmas be, without the bells? (If the sites I looked at reflect what actually happened)



"One of the interesting effects discovered during the recent Apollo 12 mission was the unexpectedly long duration of the Moon's seimic reaction to the imapct of the ascent stage of the lunar module. Instead of the expected few minutes, the oscillations continued for about 55 minutes. No less unexpected and indeed somewhat disconcerting was the reaction among the specialists who were immediately faced with the difficulty of explaining this effect.
http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0709968



“The moon is seismically active,” Neal said. “When a quake occurs, the moon rings like a bell

http://www.physorg.com/news63645811.html


Strangely enough, even with modern science, it is admitted that the moon's orbit as is, came to be very fast. No old ages involved there at all'

"The Earth-facing hemisphere contains all the large maria. The simple picture of the moon stabilising with its heavy side towards the Earth is incorrect, however, because the tidal locking occurred over a very short timescale of a thousand years or less, while the maria formed much later."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_locking "

Some strange facts about the moon.

"Unlike Earth--and almost all of the other planets in the solar system--the Moon has no measurable global magnetic field. But when Apollo astronauts brought home the first moon rocks thirty years ago, they discovered that the four-billion-year-old rocks were magnetized. Traditional models suggested that the Moon did not have an internally driven magnetic field when the rocks were formed, leaving the source of magnetization a mystery."
http://sciencereview.berkeley.edu/articles.php?issue=6&article=briefs_1


By their reckoning of ages, the moon is older than earth.

"the oldest material from the surface of the Moon is almost as old as we believe the Solar System to be. This is more than a billion years older than the oldest Earth rocks that have been found."
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/moon/moon_surface.html


While little is known about the interior of the moon, some assume that there are a lot more refractory elements on the surface of the moon, than on earth.

"The Taylors conclude that it is likely that the Moon is enriched by about 50% in refractory elements. The discrepancy among all the studies that have been done stems from a fundamental lack of information about the composition and compositional variations in the lunar crust and mantle.
http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/April07/Moon2Views.html


The abundance and distribution of iron on the moon's surface, as measured by the lunar probe Clementine, indicates that the moon is richer than the earth in refractory (high meltingpoint) compounds. The moon, therefore, almost certainly originated elsewhere, contrary to what most astronomers have longbelieved.
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf101/sf101a99.htm


Intelligent design indeed.

The latest theory of where the moon came from, that hasn't yet been shot down like the others that preeceeded it, is weak, speculative in the extreme, and seems like grasping at straws, to avoid admitting the obvious, that God created it.

Perhaps someone would like to try to defend the latest obscene stretch of so called science, that claims the origin of the moon was from some dreamed up non existent past impact?

So, looking at science, and Nasa endeavors, it seems that the moon is quite a spiritual place.


I would suggest that, since we know that the inner earth is a place where spirits live, so also is the inner moon!

Isa 66:1 - Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

That almost sounds like He sometimes is so near the earth is like His stool. What heavenly body is nearest to earth?

The interior of the moon, like earth, I would think, by the evidences of science in the form of moon landings, is inhabited by spirits. (i.e. the general strong feeling it was a spiritual place)

In this respect, the package of the moon is like a Christmas present. Lots of neat things inside.
And science doesn't know what is in the center of the moon.

It gives new meaning to the thought that God is watching us. He knows when we are naughty, and He knows when we are nice, ..

Merry Christmas !
 
Reactions: AV1611VET

Frumious Bandersnatch

Contributor
Mar 4, 2003
6,390
334
79
Visit site
✟30,931.00
Faith
Unitarian
And he didn't find a thing.
So?
Strangely enough, even with modern science, it is admitted that the moon's orbit as is, came to be very fast. No old ages involved there at all'
What?
While there are few maria on the "far side" it is heavily cratered and has one very large impact feature.
The Far Side of the Moon.
The rugged terrain is distinguished by a multitude of crater impacts, as well as relatively few lunar maria. It includes the largest known impact feature in the Solar System: the South Pole-Aitken basin.

What do you think was happening to the earth during the late heavy bombardment of the inner solar system when most of these craters formed.
The fact that surface rocks on the moon are "older" than those on earth does not mean that the moon is older than the earth. The surface of the earth is constantly being reworked. Thus the oldest earth rocks, the 4 billion year old Acasta Gneisses found in Northern Canada and the 3.7 billion year old Isua Supracrustal rocks in West Greenland are a bit younger than moon rocks.
This is explained by the current theory of lunar formation, the Giant Impact Hypothesis.
The giant impact theory has some unsolved problems but the same could have been said of the germ theory of diseases at one point in the history of science. This doesn't mean we should go back to claiming diseases are caused by demons.
So, looking at science, and Nasa endeavors, it seems that the moon is quite a spiritual place.
So you see some spirits there? Maybe you're thinking of moonshine.
I would suggest that, since we know that the inner earth is a place where spirits live, so also is the inner moon!
Definitely moonshine.

The interior of the moon, like earth, I would think, by the evidences of science in the form of moon landings, is inhabited by spirits. (i.e. the general strong feeling it was a spiritual place)
We've missed you dad. It's nice to have some comic relief especially with the Holywood writer's strike going on.
Merry Christmas to you and have a happy New Year too.
 
Upvote 0

FishFace

Senior Veteran
Jan 12, 2007
4,535
169
37
✟28,130.00
Faith
Atheist
He's back, babies! The best Christmas present I could have wished for! The amazing, the one, the only - it's DAD!


I'll bet there is. There's something very spiritual about most quiet, serene places!

What would Christmas be, without the bells? (If the sites I looked at reflect what actually happened)

Pretty much like most Christmasses for me. (I have, btw, been to church every single Christmas in my life)


And?

http://sciencereview.berkeley.edu/articles.php?issue=6&article=briefs_1

Ooh!

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/moon/moon_surface.html

Your conclusion is wrong. The moon is about the same age as the earth - 4.5 billion years old, it's just that the oldest material found there is older than the oldest rock on earth at the time of the article. The oldest zircon found is about 4.4 billion years old. It's harder to find old stuff on earth because the earth tends to bury it in lava.

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf101/sf101a99.htm

That article is from 1995. The current theory is that the earth was wallopped by a mars-sized object early in its life, causing it to completely melt. The result was that certain elements sunk into what was the earth, and other bits floated off with the moon.



Sorry dad, but every theory claimed that the moon came from the distant past!

So, looking at science, and Nasa endeavors, it seems that the moon is quite a spiritual place.


:O

I would suggest that, since we know that the inner earth is a place where spirits live




so also is the inner moon!

See above.

The interior of the moon, like earth, I would think, by the evidences of science in the form of moon landings, is inhabited by spirits. (i.e. the general strong feeling it was a spiritual place)

... so if you feel somewhere is spiritual, that means it has spirits inside. Hmm. I put to you that feeling spiritual has no relation to the existence of spirits, whatever they are.

In this respect, the package of the moon is like a Christmas present. Lots of neat things inside.
And science doesn't know what is in the center of the moon.

It knows better than you!

Merry Christmas !

Yeah...
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Okay, so some astronauts read out Genesis...so?
So, the best science could put into space, and the first living souls to orbit the moon were in such awe, all they could communicate to earth was 'In the beginning God created...' That is significant.
Also, the few men to walk on the moon experienced a strong strong spiritual force there. Christians, and I think I read even a non Christian found it spiritual.

Then, of note, were the large percentage of Christians among the men that actually walked on the moon. That seems significant as well.
The full moon we had, on the Eve of the celebration of the birth of the Jesus, who also made the moon, resonates as wonderful. Looking into the new year, 2008, I find it significant that even the calendar marks the event as well.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And he didn't find a thing.
So?
What?
So, the powerful spiritual forces emanating from the moon so affected the man, his life was changed, and then, as a result, sought to do stuff for Jesus. He felt that finding the ark, might be one for the Gipper, apparently. So he tried. I think I gave my personal opinion on the ark long ago. I speculated that it might be metal, that gopher wood was a casting process of the ancient times. Therefore, I would think that looking for a blob of rusted iron, or metal might be more successful, than seeking a giant wooden boat. So, I do not commend him for being perfectly right, thought he may be for all I know, but for effort. 'A' for effort.

Was this going to be leading up to a point???
What do you think was happening to the earth during the late heavy bombardment of the inner solar system when most of these craters formed.
Since you asked, I guess that would be either the flood time, or not long after, debris from earth. Why??


The fact that surface rocks on the moon are "older" than those on earth does not mean that the moon is older than the earth.
I know that. They were made the same week.

The surface of the earth is constantly being reworked.
Only for several thousand years, and a lot of that was in the past, where we have no idea about the state of the universe, as I have said long ago.

Demons do cause disease. This is news?? Not all disease, there are things called germs, etc. But, unless we claim God's protection, demons could be allowed to afflict us, as happened to Job.

As for the silly impact theory, it relies on such a series of dumb flukes, that an advanced computer model was needed to cook up a quasi believable scenario! And, then, only of one first was a believer in a state of the universe that is unknown to science, yet claimed by science!!

So you see some spirits there? Maybe you're thinking of moonshine.
Definitely moonshine.
There are those spirits as well, and, yes, drink can carry real spirits. Always pray as you drink. Spirits are everywhere. I like the good spirits.

We've missed you dad. It's nice to have some comic relief especially with the Holywood writer's strike going on.
Well, thanks. You do have a lot of worldly knowledge to pilfer, and when I spar with folks like you, and win, I feel I accomplished something.

Merry Christmas to you and have a happy New Year too.
This is a nice day to post. Everyone seems friendly, and in good spirits. All the best to your family as well.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I'll bet there is. There's something very spiritual about most quiet, serene places!
The degree in which the moon affected the few men to go there suggests it is concentrated spiritual force at work there. It didn't just give them a touchy feely tingle, but had great impact on their lives. I mean, I could go to the taj mahal, but doubt I would then actually climb one of the higher mountains in the earth, several times, and run around speaking about the experience to crowds.


Pretty much like most Christmasses for me. (I have, btw, been to church every single Christmas in my life)
I have not seen one of those inside for many years. But, glad it works for you.



And?

[/url]

Ooh!
And, I wonder at what is really inside the moon, some claim it is hollow. I do not, but do feel that, being such an obvious spiritual place, spirits do reside inside. That means that we can toss out seismic evidence, since those waves can't function as expected when they hit things composed of either spiritual, or physical and spiritual material.

I think the interior of the moon is too small to contain New Jerusalem. At least if it is now the size that it will be a thousand years after Christ returns. That almost makes me wonder, could a spiritual city actually grow, or expand over time, as needed? But let's not get too far afield here.


I guess, that posting a link makes it 'my conclusion' in your books. OK. I actually was just trying to show that science says certain things about age. I can't share their faith there.
Right, so I have heard. I find it amazing, the lengths so called science will go to cook up some lame PO past story.

[/size][/b]Sorry dad, but every theory claimed that the moon came from the distant past!
But not a past impact. Of course the other already tossed out theories were also based on a same state past assumption. I never doubted that.


... so if you feel somewhere is spiritual, that means it has spirits inside. Hmm. I put to you that feeling spiritual has no relation to the existence of spirits, whatever they are.
Well, you can put that opinion out, that is fine. But the bible does talk of spirits under the earth. So why not under the moon, our moon, as well??
Looking at the evidence, not only did men on the moon get impacted by a bombardment of spiritual force, but men on earth, in a full moon, historically, have noticed something of a spiritual influence on man! Whether good or bad.
That is a pretty well documented impact theory! Not like the silly one science has lately resorted to grasping at.
 
Upvote 0

FishFace

Senior Veteran
Jan 12, 2007
4,535
169
37
✟28,130.00
Faith
Atheist
So, the best science could put into space, and the first living souls to orbit the moon were in such awe, all they could communicate to earth was 'In the beginning God created...' That is significant.

They chose to read a Bible passage... they were from an ostensibly Christian nation and, apparently, the astronauts themselves were religious. Significant, maybe - it signifies that there were Christians involved, nothing more.

Also, the few men to walk on the moon experienced a strong strong spiritual force there. Christians, and I think I read even a non Christian found it spiritual.

A spiritual force? Where was the force mentioned? I thought it was a spiritual feeling and that dad all depends on your definition of spiritual. Y'see, I'm quite happy to say I felt a "spiritual" feeling at the top of a glacier, but all that signifies is that it's a pretty awesome experience being somewhere like that.

Then, of note, were the large percentage of Christians among the men that actually walked on the moon. That seems significant as well.

Sample: low. Percent above average: low. Possibility of inaccurate statistics: near certain.

The full moon we had, on the Eve of the celebration of the birth of the Jesus, who also made the moon, resonates as wonderful.

I guess approximately one in 28 Christmas eves have full moons, increasing if you count a day or two out.

Haha, an interesting relation to number theory, in fact. Turns out that 28 and 365 are coprime so, for the non-leap-years at least, you get a regular 1/28 chance. Can't be bothered working out the stuff with the leap years.

Looking into the new year, 2008, I find it significant that even the calendar marks the event as well.

Really... because no-one ever put the lunar cycle on a calendar before? Pull the other one, its got bells on.
 
Upvote 0

Frumious Bandersnatch

Contributor
Mar 4, 2003
6,390
334
79
Visit site
✟30,931.00
Faith
Unitarian
So, the powerful spiritual forces emanating from the moon so affected the man, his life was changed, and then, as a result, sought to do stuff for Jesus.
Nonsense. Irwin was a Christian whose mother wanted him to be a minister. He did often say he "felt the power of God" on the moon but this could as well be emotional reaction to the situation and not the effect of spirits living inside the moon.
The list of your absurd speculations would probably fill a book by now. So what?

FB:What do you think was happening to the earth during the late heavy bombardment of the inner solar system when most of these craters formed.
Since you asked, I guess that would be either the flood time, or not long after, debris from earth.
So you think debris from the earth around flood time caused the formation of all those craters on the moon. The amusing thing is that you don't actually know how totally absurd this idea is.
Because these impacts were huge each releasing millions of megatons of energy and the earth would have experience many times more impacts because of its larger size. The surface of the planet would have been melted and the oceans vaporized.

I know that. They were made the same week.
The moon was probably formed within a few hundred million years after the earth formed but hardly in the same week.

FB:The surface of the earth is constantly being reworked.
Only for several thousand years, and a lot of that was in the past, where we have no idea about the state of the universe, as I have said long ago.
Your goofy "different past" is as absurd now as it was long ago. The surface of the earth has undergone a lot of changes in the last 4.5 billion years which is why the oldest rocks are not quite as old as those on the moon.

Demons do cause disease.
So exactly which disease are caused by demons?

This is news??
I am sure it would be news to the American Medical Association and the CDC and my friends at FDA if it weren't total nonsense but since it is total nonsense I don't think I'll bother telling them this news.
Not all disease, there are things called germs, etc. But, unless we claim God's protection, demons could be allowed to afflict us, as happened to Job.
So should we called some demon caused diseased Job's disease or did Job suffer from demonitis.
I don't think there is anything silly about the impact theory but it does rely on chance. Chance events do occur and our moon is unique in the solar system. But you are right, such scenarios rely on believing in reality and not your different state fantasies.

There are those spirits as well, and, yes, drink can carry real spirits. Always pray as you drink. Spirits are everywhere. I like the good spirits.
No doubt. Perhaps they help you come up with all your strange ideas. Some people see pink elephants you see spirits living in the moon and no gravity before the flood and time running backwards. We really have missed your comic relief.

Well, thanks. You do have a lot of worldly knowledge to pilfer, and when I spar with folks like you, and win, I feel I accomplished something.
Too bad you have never accomplished anything, unless you count wasting our time as accomplishment.

This is a nice day to post. Everyone seems friendly, and in good spirits. All the best to your family as well.
Thanks. I trust you had a good Christmas and hope you have a happy New Year.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hey, dad. Welcome back!

Let's talk PO! (I really missed those discussions. )


I like the spirit of the song, 'Imagine' I found it was too hopeless, and sad. I sing it like this.

Imagine
John Lennon
(new words)

Imagine we're in Heaven, it's easy if you try
No more hell around us, a crystal pure clear sky

Imagine all the people, loving every day..Ohh

Imagine there's no system, it isn't hard to do
No more wars to die for, no cars or money too

Imagine all God's people, living life in peace..ohh

-You may say I',m a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you will join us, and the world will be as one


Imagine there's still nations, imagine we have wings
Imagine us as rulers, for the King of Kings..ohh


-You may say I',m a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you will join us, in the kingdom of God's Son..



Anyhow, if we talk science, we can't avoid the PO. No worries there.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,856,321
52,686
Guam
✟5,166,706.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I see there are a few points to address, but thought I would let as much of this nice Christmas wane as possible, before slice and dicing them.

Suit yourself, bro --- the fruitcake here is still as fresh today as the day it was when you left.
 
Upvote 0

Frumious Bandersnatch

Contributor
Mar 4, 2003
6,390
334
79
Visit site
✟30,931.00
Faith
Unitarian
Not bad. At least it scans. But I have no desire to imagine myself as a ruler of anything. But IIRC you imagine yourself living in a city of transparent God and boinking Marylin Monroe and other famous beauties for ever and ever. Now that thread was classic dad. I hope you are still up to providing such hilarity.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
They chose to read a Bible passage... they were from an ostensibly Christian nation and, apparently, the astronauts themselves were religious. Significant, maybe - it signifies that there were Christians involved, nothing more.
Why such a huge percentage of men so far allowed to go to the moon? Maybe there is a limit to His patience.


A spiritual force? Where was the force mentioned? I thought it was a spiritual feeling and that dad all depends on your definition of spiritual.
Well feelings usually do not completely change your life. There was some sort of impact that cause an equal and opposite reaction there. The force was evidenced in it's effect on men! Somewhat like science claims stuff about gravitational lensing, and etc. -The reaction tells us of the force reacting on the object.

Y'see, I'm quite happy to say I felt a "spiritual" feeling at the top of a glacier, but all that signifies is that it's a pretty awesome experience being somewhere like that.
Right, but the degree is so much less, that all you take away is a few memories and pictures. See, some claim the moon influences them, and more so in a full moon. Likewise, going right there on ot near the moon has a greater impact. So the impact theory is evidenced. No?


I guess approximately one in 28 Christmas eves have full moons, increasing if you count a day or two out.
Then in your tiny life span you will not likely see that many. If this is the end times, it makes it all the more interesting. There may never be another one in this universe.


Really... because no-one ever put the lunar cycle on a calendar before? Pull the other one, its got bells on.

No one started that cycle at the arrival of God on earth as man, then wrapped the world's calendar around it.
 
Upvote 0