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jad123

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Basically, what BENEFIT is it to him to have more than one wife if he can't being having sex with the others? Any?
I'd love to know what's so great about it if there's no variety of sex involved in it for him.

Lets see:

One wife for sex
One wife to cook.
One wife to clean the house and do laundry.
One wife to take care of all of the yard work.
One wife to handle all the kids.
One wife to go to work so I do not have to.
One wife to change the TV channels because I always looking around for the remote.


Hey this is sounding better all the time!!!! Now all I need to do is figure out how God will allow this and see if I can actually find some women that would agree to these terms.

By the way I am just kidding so please do not assault me. ;)
 
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Nadiine

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Lets see:

One wife for sex
One wife to cook.
One wife to clean the house and do laundry.
One wife to take care of all of the yard work.
One wife to handle all the kids.
One wife to go to work so I do not have to.
One wife to change the TV channels because I always looking around for the remote.

Hey this is sounding better all the time!!!! Now all I need to do is figure out how God will allow this and see if I can actually find some women that would agree to these terms.

By the way I am just kidding so please do not assault me. ;)
Wow, I MUST BE SUPERWOMAN~! cuz I do all of those things myself!
I think my husband's saving a whole lotta $$$ with just me around
(ps. I can spend $$ too). :kiss: :holy:
 
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jad123

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Wow, I MUST BE SUPERWOMAN~! cuz I do all of those things myself!
I think my husband's saving a whole lotta $$$ with just me around
(ps. I can spend $$ too). :kiss: :holy:

LOL. Yeah if my wife read my post she would say the same thing and then smack me for even thinking that way.:)
 
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Romanseight2005

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You bet your bugles that Abraham and Jacob wanted polygamy. And according to who did Abraham and Jacob love one woman only? The Bible is clear that Abraham loved Hagar as well as Sarah. And there is no evidence to suggest that Jacob didn't love Leah. Your claims are completely unsubstantiated and are the product of your personal bias against polygamy.



Please do so.



Monogamy doesn't work imperfectly just because the people involved are not perfect. The whips and scorns of outrageous fortune can also play a part. I pity the man who is forbidden from loving another woman because he has to be "faithful" to a wife who is in a coma. If my first wife was battling cancer, the moral support of a second wife would be invaluable. Polygamy can serve as a priceless safety net.



You need to look harder. There are countless good examples of polygamy.

Why do you think that either Abraham or Jacob wanted polygamy? What we do know is that Abram only slept with Hagar because his wife pleaded for him to. He also got rid of her and his child because she was upsetting his wife. Also, the scriptures never call Hagar Abram's wife. Interesting, huh. Jacob wanted only to marry Rachael. He was deceived into marrying Leah. The scriptures tell us he loved Rachael. They do not tell us he loved Leah, and in fact the way it is presented in scripture, it is obvious that his wifely love was for Rachael. He took care of Leah, and did his duty by her so to speak. If this was not the the case, the scriptures would have said so. It would make no sense to say, he loved Rachael, and then just exclude the fact that he loved Leah.
Gen 29:30-31

30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah , and served with him yet seven other years.

31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.
KJV
All of the preceeding scriptures clearly lay out how Jacob was deceived into marrying Leah, and he was angry about it because he only wanted Rachael.

J
 
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Nadiine

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Why do you think that either Abraham or Jacob wanted polygamy? What we do know is that Abram only slept with Hagar because his wife pleaded for him to. He also got rid of her and his child because she was upsetting his wife. Also, the scriptures never call Hagar Abram's wife. Interesting, huh.
This was the point I was going to make - I don't know that they actually "married".
 
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Romanseight2005

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Is the "A" in LMAO supposed to be the other word for a Donkey? :confused: If so, I don't think that's necessary in a reply to someone's post.

Using OT examples of polygamy still doesn't support it - anymore than using the OT to support the Torah laws of animal sacrifice prove we're under sacrificial laws right now.

As far as Solomon, I'm pretty sure that Solomon fell back into materialism & worldliness before he died...

Ironically Solomon, after learning the hard way, I surmise, is the one who stated that you should rejoice with the wife of your youth, so much so that you are captivated by her, and not being enticed by another. I would think if anyone should know, it would be him.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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I see God telling men to love their wives as much as their own bodies & as Christ loved the church & gave His life up for her....
Quite so. However, I don't see anything suggesting that such love may ONLY exist between one man and one woman, or that the love a partner feels for another cannot be just as powerful and important as the love that the same person may feel for a DIFFERENT partner at a different time of life.

So yep, I'm sticking with "simplistic Hallmark drivel" for the moment.

And BTW lmAo... has nothing to do with donkeys.
 
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Nadiine

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Abraham after Sarah's death he married Katurah and had concubines. I'd say he liked the extra attention.

Gen.25:1-6

dayhiker
They also liked divorce for any reason and getting rid of anybody they wanted, did GOD like it? NO. Jesus said divorce was allowed due to their hard hearts, but that HE HATES DIVORCE.

So does that make it pleasing to God? The issue is, we're under the NT Grace covenant, not archaic OT law where God made allowances for their wrongs.

I find it interesting how people JUMP to using the OT when it suits their point, then attacking it when it doesn't. LOL
We can use it to try to push multiple marriages, but we sure don't like to use it for TITHING or GOING TO CHURCH/SABBATH.... & other things... like SLAVERY ;) All of a sudden, that OT is quite obsolete & not 'over us today'. ;) :cool:
 
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EnemyPartyII

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I find it interesting how people JUMP to using the OT when it suits their point, then attacking it when it doesn't. LOL
We can use it to try to push multiple marriages, but we sure don't like to use it for TITHING or GOING TO CHURCH/SABBATH.... & other things... like SLAVERY ;) All of a sudden, that OT is quite obsolete & not 'over us today'.
Well I'd be quite happy to pick one or the other and use it consistently... however, you are the one making statements that there is no Biblical support for polygamy... which Simply ain't true (solomon, et al) now... if you want to make a case that JESUS wouldn't support Polygamy, well thats fine, and we can stick to purely NT verses for material to discuss... but I really don't think you should get your Ts in a K because you say something that contains an error, and then have the error pointed out to you... You're the one making the statements, its up to YOU to make sure they are correct and will withstand scrutiny.

I know there ARE a lot of preachers out there who like people to swallow their line without applying any form of critical thinking, and if those are the sort of people you want to hang out with, please, feel absolutely free, and not a word shall I say against you. However, in a public forum, complaining when people point out your errors isn't going to get you very far, because we AREN'T all of the sort of congregation who ecstatically responds AMEN! to whatever the person doing the teaching says.

God's greatest gift to us, in my opinion, is our critical thinking capacity. Please use this gift.
 
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Nadiine

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Well I'd be quite happy to pick one or the other and use it consistently... however, you are the one making statements that there is no Biblical support for polygamy... which Simply ain't true (solomon, et al) now... if you want to make a case that JESUS wouldn't support Polygamy, well thats fine, and we can stick to purely NT verses for material to discuss... but I really don't think you should get your Ts in a K because you say something that contains an error, and then have the error pointed out to you... You're the one making the statements, its up to YOU to make sure they are correct and will withstand scrutiny.

I know there ARE a lot of preachers out there who like people to swallow their line without applying any form of critical thinking, and if those are the sort of people you want to hang out with, please, feel absolutely free, and not a word shall I say against you. However, in a public forum, complaining when people point out your errors isn't going to get you very far, because we AREN'T all of the sort of congregation who ecstatically responds AMEN! to whatever the person doing the teaching says.

God's greatest gift to us, in my opinion, is our critical thinking capacity. Please use this gift.
And I'd ask you to use a little more tact than to insult me with "please use this gift" as if I don't THINK at all.
You don't have to like me, but I'm pretty sure you can debate without resorting to such insults. (perhaps that's just me not thinking again? LOL). :cool: ;)

Further, have you read this entire thread to even know my position? I never claimed the bible DIDN'T (ever) allow polygamy - I'm saying it's sinful as per the NT.
That's based on what the NT says. I don't recall the NT condemning slavery that was allowed in the OT - but it doesn't make slavery right, or divorce - or that it's God will for us.

I yet await ANYONE to provide a NT polygamous couple openly working in the NT church. (as examples of polygamy operating in the churches) (as I ask homosexuals to provide for gay couples in the churches) - neither can provide any support -- if it's such a prevalent and acceptable lifestyle that God condones and promotes for us to immitate, why are they completely absent?
Obviously NEITHER of these lifestyles are common in the early churches of the NT.

I would THINK that's significant if God wants us to know that these lifestyles are permissible & Godly behaviour.

I won't go back into the sets of scriptures that outline the proper marital unit (1 male, 1 female) and that elders/bishops were to have one wife (being blameless), but it's plainly written what God calls for us.

Try those for "critical thinking". How about "thinking" within the BIBLE'S TEACHINGS.
God says not to lean on our own understanding, that His ways & thoughts are higher than ours - I conform to GOD'S ways, not think up of my own as it suits me.
thanks anyways.
 
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ShermanN

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They also liked divorce for any reason and getting rid of anybody they wanted, did GOD like it? NO. Jesus said divorce was allowed due to their hard hearts, but that HE HATES DIVORCE.

So does that make it pleasing to God? The issue is, we're under the NT Grace covenant, not archaic OT law where God made allowances for their wrongs.

I find it interesting how people JUMP to using the OT when it suits their point, then attacking it when it doesn't. LOL
We can use it to try to push multiple marriages, but we sure don't like to use it for TITHING or GOING TO CHURCH/SABBATH.... & other things... like SLAVERY ;) All of a sudden, that OT is quite obsolete & not 'over us today'. ;) :cool:
Actually, there is a great move in the church to repent of it's rejection of the OT and honor and understand it more. Jesus prophesied that there would be two major divisions in the church, those who teach and obey the Law, and those who neither teach it nor obey it. He said the first would be the greater and the second the lesser in the Kingdom of God.

As I mentioned before, you and I differ so greatly on our understanding of the NT because of our different values concerning the OT. Frankly, I believe that the NT was built upon the OT, that the OT is the foundation for the NT. Those who reject the OT take the NT as a radical change and departure from the OT.

Concerning Polygamy, if one reads the NT exclusive of the OT and understands the NT through Greco-Roman western cultural lenses, then one can pretty easily deduce that the NT monogamy is the only acceptable form of marriage and that polygamy is not acceptable.

However, if one reads the NT as based on the OT and understands it through the ancient near-eastern cultural lenses of Jesus and the Apostles, then one will deduce that God works with families whether they are monogamous or polygamous. And one can further deduce that God will work with families that are polyandrous (in the few cultures where that is practiced). Of course, there are some relationships that God forbids in the OT, same-sex, near-relative, etc. We can also see that MDR is under civil authority, biblically speaking. Even in Israel, when Israel was a theocracy, issues concerning MDR were regulated by judges and not the priests. The issue of which authority structure (religious, civil, domestic, personal) has rule over MDR is a foundational issue that one must wrestle through in order to have a full understanding of this subject.

We could rationalize all day concerning the pros and cons of polygamy, but it really comes down to how we understand the word. Based upon the way that I understand what the Bible teaches, God works with and will bless families whether they are monogamous, polygamous, or polyandrous.

Blessings,
Sherman

p.s. Sadly Mal.2.6 is regularly mistranslated that "God hates divorce". However, in that passage God is actually chastizing Israel for the "hateful divorce", divorces based on immoral reasons. Based on the literary context, that passage is referencing men of Israel who divorced the wives of their youth so that they could marry younger foreign women, breaking covenant with their wives and with God. Because of this God was not even listening to their prayers.
 
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Nadiine

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As I mentioned before, you and I differ so greatly on our understanding of the NT because of our different values concerning the OT. Frankly, I believe that the NT was built upon the OT, that the OT is the foundation for the NT. Those who reject the OT take the NT as a radical change and departure from the OT.
Do you know what my views are? From this paragraph, I'd say you don't.

Concerning Polygamy, if one reads the NT exclusive of the OT and understands the NT through Greco-Roman western cultural lenses, then one can pretty easily deduce that the NT monogamy is the only acceptable form of marriage and that polygamy is not acceptable.

However, if one reads the NT as based on the OT and understands it through the ancient near-eastern cultural lenses of Jesus and the Apostles, then one will deduce that God works with families whether they are monogamous or polygamous. And one can further deduce that God will work with families that are polyandrous (in the few cultures where that is practiced). Of course, there are some relationships that God forbids in the OT, same-sex, near-relative, etc. We can also see that MDR is under civil authority, biblically speaking. Even in Israel, when Israel was a theocracy, issues concerning MDR were regulated by judges and not the priests. The issue of which authority structure (religious, civil, domestic, personal) has rule over MDR is a foundational issue that one must wrestle through in order to have a full understanding of this subject.
The issue is the heart - as is everything else. The fact as I see it is that if man couldn't have sex w/ the additional wives, polygamy would lose most if not ALL appeal to men; the source of men desiring polygamy is fleshly - at least outside of the cultures where having 200 children isn't viewed as the pinnacle of blessing or power (ego trips etc).
Imo, it's very possible that since children were viewed as such a blessing in biblical times, and they were 'being fruitful & multiplying', I can see why God may have allowed it in OT times.

We still have NT teachings that show otherwise in the age of GRACE. IF they didn't all exist, then I wouldn't take the position I have on this so firmly.
But they are there along w/ the absense of any polygamous NT church converts operating in the earliest churches.

We could rationalize all day concerning the pros and cons of polygamy, but it really comes down to how we understand the word. Based upon the way that I understand what the Bible teaches, God works with and will bless families whether they are monogamous, polygamous, or polyandrous.
I'm interested in how you assess how God will judge... that's obviously based on YOUR personal opinion of polygamy in scripture...
I could say the same thing you did about monogamy only & claim God will only bless Mongamous people.
:o :sorry:

p.s. Sadly Mal.2.6 is regularly mistranslated that "God hates divorce". However, in that passage God is actually chastizing Israel for the "hateful divorce", divorces based on immoral reasons.
I consider Polygamy to be "immoral".... :idea:

Based on the literary context, that passage is referencing men of Israel who divorced the wives of their youth so that they could marry younger foreign women, breaking covenant with their wives and with God. Because of this God was not even listening to their prayers.
How silly then - if Polygamy was fine & promoted, why not just KEEP the first 'haggy' wife & take on the hot new foreigners?:scratch:
 
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SonOfSophroniscus

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Aye, nice one. And to Nadiine;

Not using said capacity does not entail not-thinking.

Well I'd be quite happy to pick one or the other and use it consistently... however, you are the one making statements that there is no Biblical support for polygamy... which Simply ain't true (solomon, et al) now... if you want to make a case that JESUS wouldn't support Polygamy, well thats fine, and we can stick to purely NT verses for material to discuss... but I really don't think you should get your Ts in a K because you say something that contains an error, and then have the error pointed out to you... You're the one making the statements, its up to YOU to make sure they are correct and will withstand scrutiny.

I know there ARE a lot of preachers out there who like people to swallow their line without applying any form of critical thinking, and if those are the sort of people you want to hang out with, please, feel absolutely free, and not a word shall I say against you. However, in a public forum, complaining when people point out your errors isn't going to get you very far, because we AREN'T all of the sort of congregation who ecstatically responds AMEN! to whatever the person doing the teaching says.

God's greatest gift to us, in my opinion, is our critical thinking capacity. Please use this gift.
 
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dayhiker

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They also liked divorce for any reason and getting rid of anybody they wanted, did GOD like it? NO. Jesus said divorce was allowed due to their hard hearts, but that HE HATES DIVORCE.

So does that make it pleasing to God? The issue is, we're under the NT Grace covenant, not archaic OT law where God made allowances for their wrongs.

I find it interesting how people JUMP to using the OT when it suits their point, then attacking it when it doesn't. LOL
We can use it to try to push multiple marriages, but we sure don't like to use it for TITHING or GOING TO CHURCH/SABBATH.... & other things... like SLAVERY ;) All of a sudden, that OT is quite obsolete & not 'over us today'. ;) :cool:
Nadiine,
I agree with you that we live under grace today. I also agree that we aren’t under the Mosaic law.
I don’t like the idea that the NT has to have examples of something before they are OK for us to practice something. The NT doesn’t have any examples of musical interments being played at their meetings. So then I attended a Mennonite church for several months they sang a cappella. I also understand that there are churches that only have one cup for communion since cup is always singular in the NT. I don’t think the NT church owned church buildings but meet in homes and I suppose many other things could be noted.
The reason the church has be so effective in preaching the Gospel to every culture is because the Gospel isn’t tied to a culture. The main reason I believe we aren’t under the Mosaic law is because God didn’t save us to be culturally Israel.
So I see poly relationships as OK. How does God judge them? I’d say God judges them by are they loving? Yes, you don’t want anything to do with a poly relationship. But there are a few women that do. And there are most likely a lot of men who do. Your also right that many of men think about the sex part of it. But true poly is about relationships. In reading their writings they write a lot about how to work their relationships so each persons needs are meet, including sexual ones. If a man is treating his first wife bad, then having another wife will more than double his problems, not solve any.
Slavery is an economic issue. Much of the world was in slavery in the NT times. Some masters were to caring of their slaves that they slave volunteered to become a love slave. I’ve not heard one story like that from American slavery. But in a sense I’m a slave. I’ve chosen not to run my business live. I go to a company and work for them. They are treating me nicely enough that I have no desire to go anywhere else .. especially to start me own company. Ya, its not the same, because they only tell me what to do for 8 hours a day!
So Nadiine, what your saying is right for 98?% of the people say. But I want to see the other 2? be able to live in a way that works for them. In general I think the reason the reason 50% of the people on the earth aren’t saved now, is because the church has told a lot of people they can only live a certain way. When if we didn’t lay the law down which leads to rebellion, but told them to do what the other person will feel is loving then more people would have accepted Christ. That’s how I see the gospel working.
dayhiker
 
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ShermanN

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Nadiine,

Let's see, do I know what your views are concerning the OT? From your previous posts it seems that you believe the OT was done away with, that we no longer live under the Law, and that Jesus wished to change specifically the OT law that allowed polygamy and make monogamy as the only acceptable family structure. So rather than building upon the Law, Jesus changed the law - or have I misunderstood you?

Concerning the men promoting polygamy just because of sex, that's part of the reason, but I believe it goes even deeper to the biological and psychological drive to procreate. That's why men are typically attracted to younger child-bearing age women. And that's also the reason many women are attracted to older men because older men can provide better for their children. For the man, having multiple wives means having more children. For the woman, multiple husbands does not mean that she will have more children or that the children will be any better cared for. But marrying an older more stable and mature man does increase the chance that she will have children and they'll be cared for. I mention all of this to just bring out that there are other reasons than just sex (though that is a significant drive in most men) that move men towards polygamy more so than women towards polyandry.

You also mentioned or ask what I think how God would asses or judge "polygamists" (I assume). I believe it depends very much on their culture and how God calls them personally to live. Of course if it's outlawed in their culture, like it is ours, then it would be wrong for them to marry more than one wife. In other cultures though where polygamy is legal, even promoted, then it depends on their personal relationship and direction from the Lord, and the individual situation.

Concerning you considering polygamy to be immoral, that's fine for you, but bibilically polygamy in general is not considered immoral. There are specific polygamous relationships that are immoral, like marrying a woman and either her mother or her daughter.

Concerning "why not just keep the first 'haggy wife and take on the hot new foreigners?" Because these men were evil, thinking only of themselves and these old wives could no longer bear children or do little to increase the wealth of the man, possibly actually being a burden. -- That's why God was judging them to be treacherous. It was evil. And not only were they breaking covenant with the wives of their youth, but they were also breaking covenant with God by marrying foreign women, poluting the line of David, and possibly delaying or stopping the birth of Christ, the godly seed that was prophesied in this passage.

Please, in closing, let me just repeat that I'm not pro-polygamy. I'm happily married to the wife of my youth and look forward to growing old together with her and enjoying our grandchildren and greatgrandchildren, should the Lord tarry. However, I also want to be true to what the Bible teaches, as best that I understand it. I also do my best to understand the bible based on it's context and not read into the Bible from my personal perspective. What I've shared, I believe to be true; but I also have no dellusions of being 100% correct about anything.
 
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Nadiine

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Nadiine,

Let's see, do I know what your views are concerning the OT? From your previous posts it seems that you believe the OT was done away with, that we no longer live under the Law, and that Jesus wished to change specifically the OT law that allowed polygamy and make monogamy as the only acceptable family structure. So rather than building upon the Law, Jesus changed the law - or have I misunderstood you?
k, I don't believe the law is obsolete/gone. Unfortunately, the minute you say it's not gone in any posts, you get the usual attacks & you're forced to explain how it works today & that you don't claim that we can't eat pork or shellfish etc.... I get tired of having reiterate the same thing. :yawn:

Technically, if the law was "done away with" entirely, then I'm not sure how God could condemn mankind for sin - becuz the penalty of sin is death - if the penalties are all gone (with the law), then so is all judgment.
One either has the blood of Christ over them, or they stand in their own sin & have to pay with their own (life for life). The unsaved fall back under the law, they don't have Christ's atonement - (follows the sacrificial system basics). You're either under law or grace.

This is where Christians think the law is "GONE"... it's not. It's just that they don't fall under it's penalties & Christ fulfilled the sacrificial/ceremonial system of it.

Jesus fulfilled the perfect law - and became the perfect "man" which enabled Him to (as a man), take on all of our sins to atone for ours & thereby initiate the Grace covenant.

That's my understanding of law & grace - we're still under the moral laws of the OT. (which I believe were existant prior to the Torah - God judged Cain for murder & He judged mankind with the great flood; all prior to law)


Concerning the men promoting polygamy just because of sex, that's part of the reason, but I believe it goes even deeper to the biological and psychological drive to procreate. That's why men are typically attracted to younger child-bearing age women. And that's also the reason many women are attracted to older men because older men can provide better for their children. For the man, having multiple wives means having more children. For the woman, multiple husbands does not mean that she will have more children or that the children will be any better cared for. But marrying an older more stable and mature man does increase the chance that she will have children and they'll be cared for. I mention all of this to just bring out that there are other reasons than just sex (though that is a significant drive in most men) that move men towards polygamy more so than women towards polyandry.
These things may be so for other cultures, but certainly not a majority of cultures for many years now.
Even still, it doesn't make it lawful if there are some other reasons other than sexual ones - we have a propensity to sin naturally - it's there & we don't have to do anything to initiate it.
So just bringing up what some people's natures are, doesn't make it right or God's will automatically; not when we're prone to sin as we are.

You also mentioned or ask what I think how God would asses or judge "polygamists" (I assume). I believe it depends very much on their culture and how God calls them personally to live.
As I see it, James 4:17 & Romans 2:14-15 would apply; the inner conscience & what you do with what you know.
Even a person with a weak conscience can sin by doing something that actually isn't sinful. Ie. Christian liberties - I'm against tattoo's altho I don't find them sinful to have, I just think God isn't pleased with them due to OT verses on it - so for ME to get a tattoo would be going against my conscience; even tho I don't think it's sin to have one.


Of course if it's outlawed in their culture, like it is ours, then it would be wrong for them to marry more than one wife. In other cultures though where polygamy is legal, even promoted, then it depends on their personal relationship and direction from the Lord, and the individual situation.
I'd tend to think a culture living in such a lifestyle isn't "Christian" - but I'll let God deal with all that since I don't live in remote areas.

Concerning you considering polygamy to be immoral, that's fine for you, but bibilically polygamy in general is not considered immoral. There are specific polygamous relationships that are immoral, like marrying a woman and either her mother or her daughter.
Again, I disagree as per the NT specifications & guidelines on what a marriage consists of along w/ zero examples of any practicing polygamists in the NT churches (as I require gays to show me examples for homosexuals).

Concerning "why not just keep the first 'haggy wife and take on the hot new foreigners?" Because these men were evil, thinking only of themselves and these old wives could no longer bear children or do little to increase the wealth of the man, possibly actually being a burden.
Exactly. The point was, they didn't LOVE THEIR WIVES in the first place & that's how I view polygamists.


Please, in closing, let me just repeat that I'm not pro-polygamy. I'm happily married to the wife of my youth and look forward to growing old together with her and enjoying our grandchildren and greatgrandchildren, should the Lord tarry. However, I also want to be true to what the Bible teaches, as best that I understand it. I also do my best to understand the bible based on it's context and not read into the Bible from my personal perspective. What I've shared, I believe to be true; but I also have no dellusions of being 100% correct about anything.
I respect that you want to be true to the Bible - no doubt, any sincere Christian does. But I am being true to the Bible in reading what I do as well and I find those things quite clear.

I have no ill will against you tho. I just stand in disagreement on the issue. My debate style is straight forward - but I don't harbor hostility against people. :wave:
 
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ShermanN

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That's my understanding of law & grace - we're still under the moral laws of the OT. (which I believe were existant prior to the Torah - God judged Cain for murder & He judged mankind with the great flood; all prior to law)
My point was that you disagree with the Torah concerning polygamy. The Torah allowed and regulated polygamy, and certainly did not forbid it. But, if I understand you correctly, you believe that the NT changes this making monogamy the only acceptable family structure. So you agree with the moral laws of the OT except for issues concerning MDR like polygamy; those the NT change.

That's where we disagree; I believe that the NT is founded upon the OT, especially the moral laws, including issues concerning MDR like polygamy. Thus the lack of specific NT examples concerning polygamy is not a valid argument against polygamy. Furthermore, statements concerning marriage in the NT would assume the moral acceptability of polygamy, and certainly not assume that polygamy was not morally acceptable.

Again, I disagree as per the NT specifications & guidelines on what a marriage consists of along w/ zero examples of any practicing polygamists in the NT churches (as I require gays to show me examples for homosexuals).
What you claim as NT specifications & guidelines do not speak against polygamy, in fact if one accepts that Jesus did not change the moral law of the OT, then these "guidelines" assume polygamy is morally acceptable as biblically declared.

Concerning your previous arguments concerning homosexuality, there is a huge difference between polygamy and homosexuality, that being polygamy was morally acceptable in the OT; whereas, homosexuality was declared morally reprehensible.

I respect that you want to be true to the Bible - no doubt, any sincere Christian does. But I am being true to the Bible in reading what I do as well and I find those things quite clear.

I have no ill will against you tho. I just stand in disagreement on the issue. My debate style is straight forward - but I don't harbor hostility against people. :wave:
I respect and appreciate you to and look forward to future debates. :wave:

Blessings,
Sherman
 
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