Monogamy

[Sojourner<><]

man and woman become one flesh , not man and women.

I wish it were that simple.

 

[Chie]

I wish it were that simple.

sweetie , it is.

 

[Sojourner<><]

sweetie , it is.

Sorry, I'm just not willing to start all over again. If you want to understand my point you'll have to read through the thread.

 

[ShermanN]

Sojourner, good reply; I hadn't considered the word sister meaning anything other than physical sister - valid point.

 

[Chie]

Sorry, I'm just not willing to start all over again. If you want to understand my point you'll have to read through the thread.

I respect your opinion and I understand your point. But I don't agree with it. much love and peace, Chie

 

[Sojourner<><]

...Not man and women.

Can you provide scriptural support for this? Where in the Bible does it justify the destruction of families because of our cultural standards? That is sin. God is against divorce, He allows polygamy. In Eden, it was simple. In the world as it currently is, it is not.

 

[Chie]

Happy soon to be Birthday Sojourner.....

 

[ShermanN]

Sorry, I'm just not willing to start all over again. If you want to understand my point you'll have to read through the thread.

As mentioned in a previous post, the phrase "one flesh" was an ancient idiomatic phrase that meant "to become family, like blood relatives." It's similar to the native American phrase "blood brothers." Through marriage, a man and woman become related, become family. I biblical times, a polygamous family would be "one flesh"; they would be "family," blood relatives.

 

[Sojourner<><]

I respect your opinion and I understand your point. But I don't agree with it. much love and peace, Chie

Thanks for respecting my opinion but really opinion doesn't matter when it comes to truth. What does matter is the truth as presented in the scriptures.

 

[Romanseight2005]

The thing that you guys are missing is that just because something isn't outright condemned doesn't make it something good, or something that we should have to change our laws which are right in this area, to accomodate people who wish to come over and live here. If you are talking about going to another culture, that is a different scenario, and those cases should be handled one by one. My point was very valid that slavery and concubines always followed polygamy. In every instance where polygamy was practiced in the bible, there was slavery. The point is that polygamy never upheld the notion that women should be treated as humans. It goes much further than merely recognizing that oppression tends to be more likely in polygamous settings. The fact of the matter is, that polygamy can not co exist with truly loving your wife in a sacrificial manner. The scriptures are clear, just like with slavery, that while it's not condemned, it's not conducive to showing value to a person. God did set his people free from slavery, and by the way there are plenty of parables showing slave master relationships. This also does not honor slavery. Likewise, the many things that Jesus did while He walked the earth showed clearly that women were to be valued.He did many things that totally freaked everyone out regarding the treatment of women. This is why you don't hear polygamy spoken of in the New Testament because the value that Jesus placed upon women couldn't coexist with polygamy.

 

[Chie]

QUESTION????
So my husband could take in another woman , become one with her as with me, share our marriage bed. And if I wanted to become one with another man would that be ok , or adultery ?

 

[Sojourner<><]

The thing that you guys are missing is that just because something isn't outright condemned doesn't make it something good, or something that we should have to change our laws which are right in this area, to accomodate people who wish to come over and live here. If you are talking about going to another culture, that is a different scenario, and those cases should be handled one by one. My point was very valid that slavery and concubines always followed polygamy. In every instance where polygamy was practiced in the bible, there was slavery. The point is that polygamy never upheld the notion that women should be treated as humans. It goes much further than merely recognizing that oppression tends to be more likely in polygamous settings. The fact of the matter is, that polygamy can not co exist with truly loving your wife in a sacrificial manner. The scriptures are clear, just like with slavery, that while it's not condemned, it's not conducive to showing value to a person. God did set his people free from slavery, and by the way there are plenty of parables showing slave master relationships. This also does not honor slavery. Likewise, the many things that Jesus did while He walked the earth showed clearly that women were to be valued.He did many things that totally freaked everyone out regarding the treatment of women. This is why you don't hear polygamy spoken of in the New Testament because the value that Jesus placed upon women couldn't coexist with polygamy.

Mat 25 explains that the Kingdom of Heaven is like 10 virgins who go out to meet the bridegroom. Is there any parable that says anything like the Kingdom of Heaven is like a master who owns slaves? I'm not familiar of any but here's your opportunity to support your statement. If there is, then I admit my point is null and void.

As for your blanket statements concerning polygamy, they may be more accurate if you replace the word "polygamy" with "Islam". Islamics need Christ. I can't imagine how an Islamic man who has several wives would feel welcome to approach a new religion that threatens to break apart his family. Furthermore, to allow this would be very unscriptural.

As it applies to the domestic front, there's nothing stopping you from contributing to your local democracy. That's where our opinions matter. The fact that there are some polygamous families that are broken apart because of popular opinion is a sad consequence of this system, but perhaps an unavoidable one.

 

[ShermanN]

Romanseight2005,

I think we've come to an empasse. Neither I nor Sojourner (I believe) are trying to change any laws concerning, much less promote polygamy. I'm simply attempting to understand the Word and explain it as I understand it. Concerning polygamy, the Word regulates it, but it doesn't forbid it. Concerning polygamy not being directly addressed in the NT, the reason it wasn't directly addressed is because Jesus did not come to change the Law of Moses, but to build upon the Law and open the way of salvation and relationship with God to all of mankind. I've never found arguing over scenarios or personal reasonings to be very profitable. I do find studying the scripture together very valuable, if the purpose is to understand together the Word, rather than just yanking scripture out of context and making them say more or less than what the author intended.

Let me ask you one question please, in your opinion, if an African man who has four wives gives his life to the Lord and is born again becoming a Christian, should he divorce wives 2-4, remain married but treat wives 2-4 not as wives, or remain fully married to all four wives? This is a very real question that missionaries in Africa, the Middle East, and other polygamous cultures must answer. This is where the rubber meets the road.

Blessings,
Sherman

 

[Sojourner<><]

QUESTION????
So my husband could take in another woman , become one with her as with me, share our marriage bed. And if I wanted to become one with another man would that be ok , or adultery ?

Your scenario here is based on modern ideals. Unfortunately, the only problem with ideals is that they're not always true.

 

[Chie]

Your scenario here is based on modern ideals. Unfortunately, the only problem with ideals is that they're not always true.

please answer , it is a legit question. if you don't answer then I will assume men are the only ones that can have multiple wives and women can't have more than one husband.

 

[ShermanN]

QUESTION????
So my husband could take in another woman , become one with her as with me, share our marriage bed. And if I wanted to become one with another man would that be ok , or adultery ?

Chie, I see that you live in the United States and in the United States polygamy is against the law. Not only that, but your marriage covenant was based on mutual fidelity and the understanding that you would have a monogomous relationship. Therefore, your husband would be committing adultery, breaking both civil and moral law if he took another wife.

 

[Sojourner<><]

please answer , it is a legit question. if you don't answer then I will assume men are the only ones that can have multiple wives and women can't have more than one husband.

The scriptures do treat men and women differently and they reflect our natural differences. That is because God created us with differences. If a woman had many husbands, it would violate God's established order for the home since women are expected to respect and submit to their husbands as unto the Lord. Men are in turn expected to rule their homes well and to love their wives as the Lord loves the church. I admit, it's not exactly politically correct, but then again, when was the last time politics was concerned with the truth?

 

[ShermanN]

Chie, there are a couple of cultures where polyandry is practiced (one wife with multiple husbands). Off hand, I remember studying about one in the Himilayas, in Napal if I remember correctly. If a wife with four husbands came to Christ, would she have to divorce husbands 2-4 or remain married to them?

 

[Sojourner<><]

The scriptures do treat men and women differently and they reflect our natural differences. That is because God created us with differences. If a woman had many husbands, it would violate God's established order for the home since women are expected to respect and submit to their husbands as unto the Lord. Men are in turn expected to rule their homes well and to love their wives as the Lord loves the church. I admit, it's not exactly politically correct, but then again, when was the last time politics was concerned with the truth?

That does really sound like men and women are unequal. But that, also isn't true. We're all equals in Christ. We're all sinners in need of forgiveness and neither men nor women are better than one another. But we are different.

 

[Piedpiper123]

Let me ask you one question please, in your opinion, if an African man who has four wives gives his life to the Lord and is born again becoming a Christian, should he divorce wives 2-4, remain married but treat wives 2-4 not as wives, or remain fully married to all four wives? This is a very real question that missionaries in Africa, the Middle East, and other polygamous cultures must answer. This is where the rubber meets the road.

I don't think that they should be forced to divorce and the family torn apart.