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True love waits in haunted attics
I enjoy glimpses of the view you describe, where it actually seems to make sense, that every evil has some beautiful meaning to be taken from it and added to our ultimate contentment, but then I remember the innocent child brutally raped and tortured, and I'm back again asking, "What is the purpose of THIS?" No one learns here. No good can be taken from it. This is just evil that needs to be eliminated. Good is good. Evil is evil. There is no "soul-building" here.
Oh, I'm right there with you. I actually hold to a sort of Haerwasian interpretation of specific evils by saying that we simply can't say anything about them, but what I'm emphasizing with our discussion is that it's better for our characters (and not every specific evil by far) to undergo a loss of innocence and regaining of salvation through the fall. I think if anyone were to apply the "soul building" idea to say that all evils ultimately are goods in waiting, that's not far from the warning in Isaiah that says "woe to those who call good evil and evil good" (sort of).
Therefore God is fully responsible, yes?
Sort of, in a complicated way. Evil is by definition free, but I think our state of innocence is only a matter of time before evil is chosen, so in that sense God created us with this knowledge. But yeah, I think it'd be fair to say this.
Would you agree there are situations where NO GOOD can be taken from it? Also, is the ability to value good truly contingent on suffering? I believe good is of value simply because it is good, not because of comparisons.
Definite yes to the first question. As for suffering and the good, I'm saying that the ability to value anything is based in the contrast effect of not having it. The good becomes most fully valued as the good by experiencing its opposite. I mean, think of why we say rich kids are generally spoiled; it's because they're born into a world that takes for granted the high quantity and quality of goods they have, and so they don't value the good nearly as much as someone who came from nothing would.
Isn't this in contradiction to your earlier post that the full appreciation of good relies on suffering and sin?
I don't think so, because God isn't a finite being like us, and I'd argue it's the finitude (particularly with regard to experience and knowledge) that limits our appreciation of the good in a default state.
By the way, just to be clear, I don't believe foreknowledge is contingent on TOTAL foreknowledge. Nor is He Sovereign over every choice we make. But I do believe He is omnipotent. However, in creating truly free agents, He has chosen not to exercise that total-power, but given over a very real responsibility to others.
Yeah, we sort of deviated from the foreknowledge bit. Anything else we can discuss that we can't impasse on?
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