Modesty in dress and in speech

[Erinwilcox]

What are your views on Christian modesty, especially regarding women? I have some thoughts but would like to know what others think as well. Do you think that God requires women to be modest in more than just their dress?

 

[Imblessed]

yes

but maybe you should explain "modesty in more than just their dress"

I'm not quite sure I understand where you are coming from.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

yes

but maybe you should explain "modesty in more than just their dress"

I'm not quite sure I understand where you are coming from.

i'd absolutely agree with that thought. No matter what a woman is dressed like, or as, if she's not interested in being approached, that message is communicated loud and clear, even to the most hormonal 17 year old boy (let alone somebody like me, who is old enough to be Erin's father...and almost her grandfather).

There's two ways to show one's self as "not interested", or "not causually available". One way is to project an attitude of hostility and belittlement, which is sinful, and the other is to show the character of a Christian Woman, that makes that hormonal 17 year old boy think twice about messing with a Christian sister.

i believe that is what Imblessed is trying to say.

 

[StAnselm]

Yes, modesty is good. And like so many other aspects of the Christian life, it is not merely outward.

CDL, I love your avatar!

 

[erin74]

I agree that modesty is more than just dress. When Paul talks about women's dress he tells them not to worry about outward beauty, but instead be inwardly beautiful. A gentle and quiet spirit I think are the words... actually that might have been Peter. I think the same can be said for modesty. You can be dressed quite modestly and yet carry yourself in a way that is far from modest. Modesty is not just an external characteristic.

 

[Erinwilcox]

erin74,

That was exactly what I was trying to communicate when I asked if modesty was more than just the way that one dresses. I think that women can be very immodest even if their clothing covers all of their bodies. If one has a flirtatious, bold manner, etc. then I think that that constitutes immodesty as well. I listened to a sermon on it once that explained it very well. Even body language can communicate much.

 

[Imblessed]

erin74,

That was exactly what I was trying to communicate when I asked if modesty was more than just the way that one dresses. I think that women can be very immodest even if their clothing covers all of their bodies. If one has a flirtatious, bold manner, etc. then I think that that constitutes immodesty as well. I listened to a sermon on it once that explained it very well. Even body language can communicate much.

I agree totally!

 

[StAnselm]

This is a great thread, by the way.

It's so important that we don't just discuss the five points all the time...

 

[ClementofRome]

I teach college freshmen and sophomores and let me tell you friends....come August and Sept and then again in April-May, it is difficult to concentrate on the subject matter for the teacher, much less the 18-20 year old boys that are sitting next to these girls. Good grief.

The "everybody dresses this way" argument just does not fly with me. I also have 13 and 17 yo daughters who try to push the limits too. Again a case of culture dictating to Christians what they shoud wear and how they should act.

 

[JJB]

The "everybody dresses this way" argument just does not fly with me. I also have 13 and 17 yo daughters who try to push the limits too. Again a case of culture dictating to Christians what they shoud wear and how they should act.

As followers of Christ, this is an area of freedom for us and we should celebrate it. We are free from the dictates of our culture! Free to follow our Lord and Saviour in all walks of our life.

Those who are lemmings (everybody's doing it therefore it's ok) are just that, lemmings with groupthink. And they think they are the free thinkers -- ha!

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

Wow, this is really good stuff. I'm not sure there's much I can add to this, but to say that things do not look hopeful in the area of modesty among young Christians, especially here in college. Oftentimes, it is the Christians who are more provocative than the pagans. Sometimes I wonder why some of my fellow students even bother to wear clothes. They don't make much of a difference.

Maybe it's the country boy in me (I was actually born and raised in the city ), but I never understood the whole fashion thing. People spend more and more money on clothing that has less and less material (and less durable, too). Even the guys spend more on trendy clothing than they do on food.

I don't get it.

 

[edie19]

erin74,

That was exactly what I was trying to communicate when I asked if modesty was more than just the way that one dresses. I think that women can be very immodest even if their clothing covers all of their bodies. If one has a flirtatious, bold manner, etc. then I think that that constitutes immodesty as well. I listened to a sermon on it once that explained it very well. Even body language can communicate much.

It's a fine line sometimes. I'm very outgoing, always have been - and I need to be for my job. I'm also a "toucher" when I talk with people. I remember when I was in college a church friend of mine (male) commented on my "flirty" personality - except I wasn't flirting. I felt really bad when he said that to me because that was never my intent. I have tried to be more aware of how others perceive my behavior since that time.

 

[Imblessed]

" I want to be different, like everybody else!" That's the line my husband and I always say to eachother when we see attitude like that.

I'm so glad I have boys....although there's going to be issues on that front also.

when I was a teenager,I went to a small farming community school. I was pretty punk. Shorts with leggings underneath, shabby t-shirts with longjohns underneath--my beat up backpack with band names all over--weird clothes from goodwill--I even shaved most of my head once.(although that was AFTER I turned 18) My sisters asked my mom why she let me dress like that, and you know what she said??? 'Well, at least she's covering herself, and dressed like that, I don't have to worry about the boys!" LOLOL My sisters grew up in the "daisy duke" short era....

So, I guess I can't say "too" much about clothes, but I've gotten alot more conservative as I've gotten older. But mom was right, I did cover myself completely, and never understood why girls would dress skimpily.

I see kids nowadays, YOUNG kids, and just want to die. Even girls at church, I want to tel them to go cover themselves. I don't understand parents who would let their children dress like that. Obviously, I could care less "what everyone else is doing".

I'm sure I'll be pretty liberal about what my boys wear, since the immodesty is not an issue, but I'll tell you one thing. Pants that are falling off the butt is OUT. I will NOT allow it. That probably drives me more nuts than anything. One day, at a store, I saw some kid running across the parking lot into Walmart and his pants, which were belted on below his hips, fell down around his ankles. He just pulled them up and kept running!

 

[StAnselm]

I dare say many here might enjoy reading Amanda Witt's "On Boys and Bikinis" - http://wittingshire.blogspot.com/2005/04/on-boys-and-bkns.html.

 

[Imblessed]

I dare say many here might enjoy reading Amanda Witt's "On Boys and Bikinis" - http://wittingshire.blogspot.com/2005/04/on-boys-and-bkns.html.

Oh that was so awesome! Reminded my of my 6 year old--the mannerisms anyway.(hopefully the attitude someday)

Amen to that "HOLD THAT THOUGHT"!!

 

[StAnselm]

Thought you'd like it.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I'm young enough to remember when I used to talk like that boy. I still remember how confused I was at the "oh, just wait five years and you'll see" look I got from my folks when I said that I would never kiss a girl. I told my grandma that a girl would be lucky to get a milkshake out of me. Well, she still won't get a milkshake out of this poor miser, but sure enough, I had a change of heart about the smoochin'.

 

[edie19]

I dare say many here might enjoy reading Amanda Witt's "On Boys and Bikinis" - http://wittingshire.blogspot.com/2005/04/on-boys-and-bkns.html.

Love it, love it, love it

I have a very clear memory of walking through the mall with my daughter (probably about 12 at the time) and passing a Victoria's Secret. Hannah stopped in front of one of the windows and asked me, "why do people wear that stuff - it looks so uncomfortable." She absolutely wouldn't believe me when I told her that some day her husband might appreciate them.

I do often wonder though - do parents even look at their children before they walk out of the house. Not just their daughters either - how about the boys with their pants falling off?

 

[Erinwilcox]

I'm sure I'll be pretty liberal about what my boys wear, since the immodesty is not an issue, but I'll tell you one thing. Pants that are falling off the butt is OUT. I will NOT allow it. That probably drives me more nuts than anything. One day, at a store, I saw some kid running across the parking lot into Walmart and his pants, which were belted on below his hips, fell down around his ankles. He just pulled them up and kept running!

At least there's one mother who cares where her sons' pants hang! I work with a few boys who have their pants hanging half way down to their knees. It is soooo unattractive. One of the boys is incredibly short and often complains about it. Doesn't he realize that if he'd pull his pants up he'd look a little taller?!?!? I see so many boys who wear their pants "low-rise" (to use the girl's term) and show their boxers. Who started that craze anyway? Imblessed and edb19, I commend you on your common sense.

 

[edie19]

At least there's one mother who cares where her sons' pants hang! I work with a few boys who have their pants hanging half way down to their knees. It is soooo unattractive. One of the boys is incredibly short and often complains about it. Doesn't he realize that if he'd pull his pants up he'd look a little taller?!?!? I see so many boys who wear their pants "low-rise" (to use the girl's term) and show their boxers. Who started that craze anyway? Imblessed and edb19, I commend you on your common sense.

When my son was in high school I would routinely pull the back of his shirt up to see where the waist of his pants was. I also refused to buy clothes that were 4 sizes too big - 1 size maybe, but not 4. I'd always ask Sam and his friends - what if you were being chased by a dangerous dog (or a comparable situation) how could you run away if the crotch of your slacks is between your knees?

I've also read how that particular fad started, when I explained it to my son his thoughts about the "falling down" pants being cool changed.

In my work I see adolescent kids on a very regular basis. Sometimes I can't help but wonder - do their parents ever look at them?? Do they see them when they look?