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They don't have power. They are gateway activities which may give evil spirits permission to operate in your life and home.
Relying on them as methods of empowerment? Are you serious? Are you in the occult? It sure sounds like it.
If your just a skeptical dumb kid wanting to play then understand that playing the game that does not bring glory to God is an invitation to demons and a rebellion against God. Whether you believe it or not.
So I again advise, throw that trash out. Put your confidence in the Lord God alone.
Of course it is used today. People of many religions practice witchcraft, even Christianity (considering some people broadly describe reading Harry Potter and using Tarot or doing yoga witchcraft).What do you think about witchcraft, magic, and sorcery? Do you think it is used today? If so, how is it relevant to us Christians? Is there any room for Christians to dabble? If you don't think it has modern application, when did it become irrelevant?
The core tenants of witchcraft, in their own words... manipulation, intimidation, domination. I recently googled occult stores on Maps, and I was absolutely shocked at how many there are where I live!
That it doesn't exist--it's never existed. It's crucial to understand what the Bible is saying when you see words translated into these in English translations. The problem is we moderns have a set of ideas about those terms that we then insert into Scripture. For example, in the New Testament there is a Greek word, pharmakeia, that is often translated as "witchcraft"; but does that mean that pharmakeia means what we think about when we hear the word "witchcraft"?
Well no. Pharmakeia, in a negative sense, likely referred to making elixirs or concoctions for use in ritual pagan worship/practice. The word is not inherently negative. Early Christians also used it in a positive sense.
St. Ignatius of Antioch in his letter to the Ephesians, when talking about the Lord's Supper, refers to it as φάρμακον ἀθανασια (pharmakon athanasia), "medicine of immortality".
In a positive sense this word simply refers to medicine or the making of medicine. Which is why we have words like pharmacy, pharmaceutical, pharmacology, etc.
In a modern context, since the early-mid 20th century there have been some various Neo-Pagan/Pagan Revival movements that have appeared, and such movements have taken terms like "witchcraft" and "magic" to refer to their ritual practices.
No, Christians should not dabble in Pagan religious rituals.
In the more fantastical sense of magic as some kind of real power, rather than just religious pagan or folk ritual, well that doesn't exist. Nobody is out here casting fireballs like in Dungeons & Dragons, or waving wands around like in Harry Potter causing actual stuff to happen.
Where things become problematic for Christians is when we, unwittingly, begin to insert magical and superstitious ideas into our religious beliefs and practices. For example, when we start to believe that our prayers are about forcing God to act, or we treat prayer like a kind of magic. Prayer is prayer, it submits us to God, it is about our ongoing relationship with God through our faith and hope in Him; that we depend on Him for our daily physical and spiritual sustenence, e.g. "Give to us our supersubstantial/daily bread" as we read in the Lord's Prayer; that by the continuing work of the Holy Spirit in our lives sanctifying us and conforming us to Christ we pray God's work and will, and that God strengthen us to live in accordance with Himself.
Prayer is not magic, it is to recognize ourselves as being on the receiving end of God's goodness and our total dependence upon Him, for everything.
There are other ways which we can fall into the trap of superstition and wrong ways of understanding God of course. The word "superstition" is derived via Latin translation of the Greek word deisidaimonia, in Christian writing this word refers to false religion, false spirituality. There are a lot of things, both historically and modern which can probably be classified as deisidaimonia--superstition. When Oral Roberts said that if he didn't get a million dollars God was going to kill him, he was being a grifter and a charlatan, but he was banking on his listeners to be superstitious, to have such a wrong-headed view about God that they would be gullible enough to believe such conartistry.
If you've ever been worried or seen someone that's worried about seeing three 6's next to each other or near each other--that's superstitious thinking. Numbers are just numbers. There is a contextual reason why John writes that the number of the beast is six hundred and sixty-six--and it has nothing to do with the number six (by itself, or repeated anywhere) having some innate power--that is superstition, that is deisidaimonia.
So superstition is a problem, it causes us to live in fear and dread rather than in hope and faith; it makes us believe all kinds of wrong things.
-CryptoLutheran
So what is it that you are saying? That if you profess christianity that it's ok to play with Ouiji boards?
That's ridiculous.
I have experience on how targeted witchcraft can affect a person, i would dare to say that a lot of people that end up in psych wards are victims of it and evil spirits. science ignores totally that God and also the devil exists, that we have a soul and we are spiritual.
Understand that Jesus spent a lot of time dealing with evil spirits, today its the same as before or worse, since humanity has lost fear it would seem of doing evil stuff, like witchcraft, for a lot of people its just 'games'.
With all due respect, I don't base my theology on anecdotal claims by random people on the internet. I go by what is written in the Scriptures and the historic testimony of the Christian Church.
-CryptoLutheran
Tarot cards and Ouija boards are powerless, mass produced inanimate objects. If they “opened doors to demons,” there would no longer be a debate on the existence of hell and demons. There would be tangible proof they exist because the cause and effect, the indisputable evidence they existed would be literally right there in each deck. Dreamcatchers, same thing, though with more spiritual relevance for some cultures than others.As I understand it, you have to be careful not to accidently open the door to demons. Some of the ways that you can do this you have listed as well as playing with ouiji boards or tarot cards. Even dream catchers invite them in and give them permission to be there. So I'd throw that stuff out.
With all due respect, I don't base my theology on anecdotal claims by random people on the internet. I go by what is written in the Scriptures and the historic testimony of the Christian Church.
-CryptoLutheran
The reason not to use a spirit board, as a Christian, is straightforward, all forms of divination are forbidden in the Christian religion, because Scripture condemns the practice. Whether that is using a spirit board, using dice, reading animal entrails, or astrology.
People have used dice as a divination tool for thousands of years--but that doesn't mean that dice themselves have some sort of demonic agency behind them. Using dice for divination is wrong; dice themselves are just dice.
That's a critical distinction to be made. The reason why a Christian shouldn't use a Ouija or spirit board in general isn't because these objects are somehow are intrinsically demonic; but because divination has no place in Christian practice.
The belief that objects themselves can have power is itself a belief in magic, and thus just as contrary to Christian faith as divination is.
-CryptoLutheran
I’m not sure that I’d use the indigenous persons as an example of witchcraft, both because indigenous spiritual practices weren’t witchcraft, but also because… Well… Colonization happened. And it happened rather easily with comparatively little loss on the Colonizers side. So even if they did use spiritual work to repel being colonized, it was highly unsuccessful.I was making an investigation on one Native American Tribe during the Colonial and Civil war period in USA
Apparently, this tribe had successfully repelled all attempts of Catholic conversion by Spaniards who even sent armed soldiers, superior in technology and numbers. They were conquered for a time but still able to drive away the Spaniards.
Even the American government at the time did not bother trying to "assimilating" this tribe. The tribe held closely guarded secrets and a piece of land that is almost like Area 51 to them. And by some luck, I chanced upon a member of this tribe online who shared a traumatic experience that had strong implications to witchcraft.
Except this wouldn't be your typical witchcraft stuff dealing with pentagrams, ouija boards, Latin spells, and names of demons but something more ancient and probably something this tribe wielded to successfully defeat their Christian conquerors.
One of the things that came up in my investigation is that a Native American tribe may resort to the "dark side" of "medicine" during time of desperation to try to save their tribe.
Ofc, these could be just speculation since some tribes are extremely secretive about their practice.
Non-canon scriptures also remark the original disciples of Christ, excluding Apostle Paul are extremely secretive with the things they learned from Christ. Someone wanting to join had to undergo an initiation and often, it was by invitation only. They handpicked people they think can be trained to become disciples.
The practice had similarity to witchcraft....But a few fundamental principles in Christianity has similarities to witchcraft as well.
Take for example, the true name of God that has been obscured over and over as IF the name of God wasn't meant to be known or at least revealed to many.
Witchcraft believes in the same principle that allowing people to know your real name diminishes your "spiritual power or energy" or may subject you to their control or trap you with them.
And it's not just with names but extends to other things that uniquely identify a person like their face. And didn't God obscured Himself A LOT except to Moses and very few others?? And of course, the command to "not make a graven image...of created things" which perhaps in the modern context includes taking selfies.
"Anonymity" gives you power apparently....And if this is true, then social media would be a device to rob you of all spiritual energy and trap your spirit on Earth because you're letting everyone know who you are, through your name and your face.
You start losing insight, you start to fear spiritual entities and delude yourself they don't exist or they can't harm you. You start fearing the dark. Your dreams start to lose meaning and only drain your strength and may start fearing sleep itself and wishing it's morning already. You drown yourself in worldly matters because they make the spiritual reality quite distant and "harmless". You start to dread the possibility of dying, you now fear death.
Whoever said that objects can have power? I did not. I said it's what they use to suck you ito it. It opens doors for demons because
Ephesians 6
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand..../
So the objects (or people) do not have any power, but it is a spiritual demonic influence that is oppressive to the people and leads them into deception. There is no verse which says having done all to stand, except be it nown that Ouiji boards and so forth are benign and not worthy to be resisted...WHere's that at?
What do you mean I believe in magic? Define magic.
I'm not sure what Ephesians 6:11-13 has to do with this--it has literally no bearing on this subject. Nothing there says that demons use certain objects to create an influence.
There is a great deal of witchcraft and the occult. Christians should avoid it like the plague. God forbids it. See Acts 19:19What do you think about witchcraft, magic, and sorcery? Do you think it is used today? If so, how is it relevant to us Christians? Is there any room for Christians to dabble? If you don't think it has modern application, when did it become irrelevant?
You're not? Why is that? How could that be if you are Christian. Are you one of the Billion Christians who do not read or study the scriptures? Because it should be obvious to you that it has everything to do with our discussion.
You need to study more.
Your charge is baseless. It is because I study the Scriptures that I reject your use of this passage in this discussion.
Paul says nothing about demons using objects to influence people. Paul says,
"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of justice, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the Gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shielf of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the Gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak." - Ephesians 6:10-20
The Apostle says, here, stand firm in Christ, hold fast to Jesus, remember our salvation, remember God's promises--stand boldly and hold to those promises, to the word we have received, that our faith shall guard us against the devil's lies. That the sufferings and troubles we face in the world does not lead us to have enmity toward men, but that the struggle is with the evils of this present age. The evils brought about by Caesar--even as Paul is in chains for the sake of the Gospel--does not mean that our contest is with the man Caesar Nero, or with Caesar's legions, or with the magistrates and governors--it is the wickedness, the tyranny of sin and death in the world, and the spiritual darkness which blinds men to the light of Christ and the peace and hope and redemption that is in Him, against which we struggle.
-CryptoLutheran
stand boldly and hold to those promises, to the word we have received, that our faith shall guard us against the devil's lies.
Epesians 6:11
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.../KJV
So then what is the wiles of the devil? The schemes and lies about occult type things being dangerous would be included for sure.
That's fine for you and me but what about others on the path who are young in faith and not able to see the danger there? Because you may have faith enough to be protected in no way means that all young Christians can!
So you shouldn't speak of witchcraft and the occult as if it is something that doesn't matter.
I’m not sure that I’d use the indigenous persons as an example of witchcraft, both because indigenous spiritual practices weren’t witchcraft, but also because… Well… Colonization happened. And it happened rather easily with comparatively little loss on the Colonizers side. So even if they did use spiritual work to repel being colonized, it was highly unsuccessful.
That is ignoring the fact that I have a hard time believing you ran into a person from this small tribe online who, despite their practices being a closed spiritual practice for hundreds of years, just gave you the nitty gritty of it online. I think they were yanking your chain, at best. Hence everybody’s non-acceptance of anecdotal “this stranger online told me…” stuff. Anybody with a keyboard can say anything.
Counterpoint: deceiving the people of God into thinking he has power over their lives when they, in fact, belong to Christ, would be included for sure.
And that's why the work of Catechesis is so essential, and its lack in so much of modern Christianity is incredibly dangerous.
Feel free to point out that it's nonexistent woo. False religion, false spirituality. But to treat it like it represents some kind of actual power in the universe, and that the devil is anything but a lying coward--it becomes detrimental to the faith of the Christian.
-CryptoLutheran
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