Modern Israel, Act of God or man?

[ChristsSoldier115]

To expand upon my other thread about whether Israel's current state was an act their their disobedience towards God. I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here.

Why is the current modern State of Israel viewed with...um.. biblical nostalgia?

Last I checked, Israel is number 2 is receiving foreign aid from the US. Currently, being out bid by aid with Afghanistan. Every time the U.N. sends sanctions towards Israel the U.S. uses its position to shoot it down. So is this the "blessing" described of in Genesis and Numbers?

Was modern Israel created by an act of God, or an act of man feeling guilt after the holocaust and probably hundreds of years of persecution?

Is modern Israel a Godly nation or just another secular nation?

 

[miamited]

hI Christssoldier,

God has declared that He will return Israel to its land and I believe He has.

Now, will that look like and be accomplished through the works of man? Yes, I believe there is proof that God does work through men to accomplish His goals in other instances. For example, He foretold that He would bring Babylon against Israel for their disobedience and so He did. Using Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians to accomplish that. To the unbelievers and people of the world in that day it would have just looked like one country overtaking another.

God took the 12 sons of Israel into Egypt, where, by His divine providence He caused the families of Israel - 70 in all - to be corralled in an area where they were protected, but also 'kept' in order to become a nation of His people. Notice that they were given the land of Goshen, but were shunned by the Egyptians. Thereby keeping them together where God watched over them as they grew.

I believe that when God foretells that He is going to do something that He often uses the works of men to do things and for all intents and purposes looks like the people have brought about such an event. Consider Jesus. He had to die for sin. He absolutely had to shed his blood for there to be forgiveness of sin. How did God accomplish this? Well, it would seem through the hands of His own people. Many still today argue over whether it was the Jews or the Romans who murdered Jesus. I'm confident that the underlying cause was neither of them. But, God did use His own people to accomplish the task upon the earth. So, to our eyes it looks as if the Jews/Romans killed Jesus, but they were merely pawns in the hands of a compassionate and holy God. Personally, I believe God used the Jews to accomplish that which needed to be done, but... there are many for whom this causes much angst and so I throw in the Romans as an offering to them.

So, in answer to your question, I believe that God set Israel back in its place, but to many it looks just like another work of men.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Albion]

I'm inclined to go with "act of man" on the main question, but as for America's support of Israel, that's not so surprising or illogical.

First, we were deeply moved by the plight of the Jews by the end of the war, because of revelations concerning the Holocaust. And we were instrumental in setting up the United Nations, which created the State of Israel. Since that time, Israel has remained as the only democracy and Western-oriented nation in the whole of the Middle East, so it's not surprising that we would still view Israel as worth saving from our mutual enemies.

To expand upon my other thread about whether Israel's current state was an act their their disobedience towards God. I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here.

Why is the current modern State of Israel viewed with...um.. biblical nostalgia?

Last I checked, Israel is number 2 is receiving foreign aid from the US. Currently, being out bid by aid with Afghanistan. Every time the U.N. sends sanctions towards Israel the U.S. uses its position to shoot it down. So is this the "blessing" described of in Genesis and Numbers?

Was modern Israel created by an act of God, or an act of man feeling guilt after the holocaust and probably hundreds of years of persecution?

Is modern Israel a Godly nation or just another secular nation?

 

[Psalm 91]

To expand upon my other thread about whether Israel's current state was an act their their disobedience towards God. I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here.

Why is the current modern State of Israel viewed with...um.. biblical nostalgia?

Last I checked, Israel is number 2 is receiving foreign aid from the US. Currently, being out bid by aid with Afghanistan. Every time the U.N. sends sanctions towards Israel the U.S. uses its position to shoot it down. So is this the "blessing" described of in Genesis and Numbers?

Was modern Israel created by an act of God, or an act of man feeling guilt after the holocaust and probably hundreds of years of persecution?

Is modern Israel a Godly nation or just another secular nation?

I believe it is a secular nation but the people are the Chosen of God. I don't know why they have become secular as I haven't studied that much recent history of the nation. Many Jews are atheists because they have given up on an appearance by the Messiah, so maybe that is what has changed the country.

I think that the U.S. blocks sanctions on Israel because 1) the U.N. is predominantly socialist 2) the U.N. is sympathetic to the Palestinians 3) the U.N. appears to be anti-Semitic. They want to pass sanctions on Israel for protecting herself from her aggressive neighbors and that is unfair. Everyone knows that. It is so obvious that I often scratch my head and wonder what the U.N. is thinking.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Speaking of the 12 tribes. I know arabs still think of themselves in that way in the middle east. In fact if you hear their full arabic name it tells of which tribe and clan they hail from

Do modern jews still see themselves in terms of tribes and clans or able to distinguish such things among themselves anymore?

 

[miamited]

Speaking of the 12 tribes. I know arabs still think of themselves in that way in the middle east. In fact if you hear their full arabic name it tells of which tribe and clan they hail from

Do modern jews still see themselves in terms of tribes and clans or able to distinguish such things among themselves anymore?

Hi CS115,

Well, not being much interested in what the nation of Israel does or believes, after all, they missed their Messiah, I'm not sure that I'm qualified to answer, but my spirit says no.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Was modern Israel created by an act of God, or an act of man feeling guilt after the holocaust and probably hundreds of years of persecution?

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

I personally don't believe the Lord left things to chance.

 

[Percivale]

Has any other nation returned to their homeland after being dispersed for 2000 years? The gypsies have a rather similar situation to what the Jews did over a century ago, but they are sure not to return to a homeland.

 

[Melshezidek]

To expand upon my other thread about whether Israel's current state was an act their their disobedience towards God. I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here.

Why is the current modern State of Israel viewed with...um.. biblical nostalgia?

Last I checked, Israel is number 2 is receiving foreign aid from the US. Currently, being out bid by aid with Afghanistan. Every time the U.N. sends sanctions towards Israel the U.S. uses its position to shoot it down. So is this the "blessing" described of in Genesis and Numbers?

Was modern Israel created by an act of God, or an act of man feeling guilt after the holocaust and probably hundreds of years of persecution?

Is modern Israel a Godly nation or just another secular nation?

God is in absolute, undiluted control of the nation of Israel. It is he who moves the hearts of men to do his bidding.

 

[Albion]

Has any other nation returned to their homeland after being dispersed for 2000 years?

What other nation has retained its identity for 2000 years while dispersed?

 

[random person]

God already fulfilled the three promises to Abraham and remember the descendents of Abraham were only, I repeat only 70 souls strong when it went down to Egypt.

But came out a nation as numerous as the stars Deut. 10:22.

Abraham never saw the promised land during his lifetime, and how could his descendants at just 70 souls strong possess all of Canaan? They couldn't so they never saw the promised land either in their lifetimes.

But once Israel became a nation God delivered them and gave them the promised land BUT GOD FIRST DELIVERED THE LAW TO THEM THROUGH MOSES. And God states repeatedly that the nation of Israel MUST ALWAYS OBEY THE LAW!

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

Ezekiel 37 creation of 1948 Israel

the last verse tell us:

28) when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore...

We see that Daniel 9:24 tells of Israel having 70 weeks to suffer... Ofcourse the 70th week hasn't happened because it says after Israel pays it off then there will be an end to sin and everlasting righteousness will be brought in...

38:1 gog and the others mentioned here can be found as the grandsons and such of Noah... And it is where these family settled after the flood (most north of Israel) which becomes gog or Islamic nations....

To make this short if you continue reading you'll see it goes right through till God stands up for Israel and brings an end to things where Israel will be restored (grafted back into the vine)

See 38:17 for that and follow to 39:29

we see there that God will never again hide his face from Israel...

And that can Only happen once Israel is grafted back into Jesus...


The 144,000 sealed by God do that grafting in of the Jews...

 

[random person]

Ezekiel 37 creation of 1948 Israel

the last verse tell us:

28) when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore...

We see that Daniel 9:24 tells of Israel having 70 weeks to suffer... Ofcourse the 70th week hasn't happened because it says after Israel pays it off then there will be an end to sin and everlasting righteousness will be brought in...

38:1 gog and the others mentioned here can be found as the grandsons and such of Noah... And it is where these family settled after the flood (most north of Israel) which becomes gog or Islamic nations....

To make this short if you continue reading you'll see it goes right through till God stands up for Israel and brings an end to things where Israel will be restored (grafted back into the vine)

See 38:17 for that and follow to 39:29

we see there that God will never again hide his face from Israel...

And that can Only happen once Israel is grafted back into Jesus...


The 144,000 sealed by God do that grafting in of the Jews...

Gog and Magog was the Roman Empire.

The Messiah was cut off amidst the 70th week.

Two interpretations "to cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease" means Jesus is the final sacrifice for sins God will ever accept OR it occurred with the destruction of the 2nd Temple by the people of the prince (Romans) under which God does not want rebuilt and sacrifices reinstituted. JESUS IS THE FINAL SACRIFICE!

 

[Psalm 91]

Ezekiel 37 creation of 1948 Israel

the last verse tell us:

28) when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore...

We see that Daniel 9:24 tells of Israel having 70 weeks to suffer... Ofcourse the 70th week hasn't happened because it says after Israel pays it off then there will be an end to sin and everlasting righteousness will be brought in...

38:1 gog and the others mentioned here can be found as the grandsons and such of Noah... And it is where these family settled after the flood (most north of Israel) which becomes gog or Islamic nations....

To make this short if you continue reading you'll see it goes right through till God stands up for Israel and brings an end to things where Israel will be restored (grafted back into the vine)

See 38:17 for that and follow to 39:29

we see there that God will never again hide his face from Israel...

And that can Only happen once Israel is grafted back into Jesus...


The 144,000 sealed by God do that grafting in of the Jews...

Neither one of you is right. Gentiles are grafted into the branches, the Jews. WE are the adopted children of Christ.

There will be 1,000 yrs. of righteousness after Jesus comes back. Until then, we are all sinners and none of us are capable of obeying God ALL of the time which is in response to random's comment.

I think that there is a lot of confusion here.

 

[Psalm 91]

Gog and Magog was the Roman Empire.

The Messiah was cut off amidst the 70th week.

Two interpretations "to cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease" means Jesus is the final sacrifice for sins God will ever accept OR it occurred with the destruction of the 2nd Temple by the people of the prince (Romans) under which God does not want rebuilt and sacrifices reinstituted. JESUS IS THE FINAL SACRIFICE!

You are speaking heresy. Messiah was not cut off amidst the 70th week, but rather after the 69th week. There is one more week of years to go before Messiah comes back. Gog and Magog have nothing to do with the Roman Empire but rather the country to the north which is Russia. You can see the table being set for that as Iran wants to remove Israel from the map and we see Russia siding with Iran and with Syria. Russia has even threatened the U.S. not to bomb any of Iran's nuclear facilities.

Can you tell me in God's Word where He says He doesn't want the temple rebuilt? Can you tell me where Jesus came back already after 70AD? When did He begin his 1000 yr. reign and what happened after that? Can you name the antichrist who beheaded Christians? Can you tell me what the Mark of the Beast was? Can you tell me where the Kingdom of the East was and how it was involved in the Battle of Armageddon? And the Kingdom of the North? Did they almost drown in all of that blood in the Valley of Megiddo? Why isn't it in the history of Israel? What happened to the battle starting at the River Euphrates?

 

[random person]

You are speaking heresy. Messiah was not cut off amidst the 70th week, but rather after the 69th week.

What number is after 69?

 

[Digout]

Can you tell me in God's Word where He says He doesn't want the temple rebuilt?

Where does God says that the temple should be rebuilt after its destruction in 70 A.D.?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

You think the physical destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. was just God's physical example of the spiritual matter he dealt with using His only Son? We all know how Israel needs those physical miracles all the time to valid worshiping God. the OT is full of examples.

Is it God's way of saying, "Listen, this building isn't important anymore because my plan for your salvation has come to bear its fruits." ...???

 

[Digout]

You think the physical destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. was just God's physical example of the spiritual matter he dealt with using His only Son? We all know how Israel needs those physical miracles all the time to valid worshiping God. the OT is full of examples.

Is it God's way of saying, "Listen, this building isn't important anymore because my plan for your salvation has come to bear its fruits." ...???

Yes, the partially enlightened Jews continue to seek physical signs! They cannot comprehend spiritual things! The dead continue to stay with the dead!

Luke 11
29 As the crowds were increasing, He began to say, "This generation is a wicked generation; it seeks for a sign, and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah.

Luke 24
5 and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead?