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Are you talking about "born from above" or something else? If you read the post from @hedrick that I quoted there is an explanation of "born from above" as an alternative interpretation of "born again".Would you quote the passage you are referencing ? (What you said is not said anywhere in Scripture)
Apparently some Essenes believed that people were either children of light or children of darkness. Some Essenes believed in freewill and some did not. (The Qumran Essenes did not believe in freewill.)
So is Jesus gathering people who are ALREADY born from above (at birth) or is Jesus exhorting people to BECOME born from above somehow (through baptism or repentance or joining a Christian group)?
Paul wrote as written in all Scripture, what Yahuweh breathed through him,Yes, good work. But then I have issue even with Paul. Innocent children die without sin.
We are just layering a natural human condition with guilt.
To me that doesn't seem plausible, because Augustine was more comfortable reading Greek than Latin and probably had a Greek manuscript. Are you sure he was reading a Latin manuscript?The immensely influential Augustine, who derived it from a Latin mistranslation of Romans 5:12.
I'm not so sure this is true. How Bad Were Augustine's Greek Skills? - exegetical.toolsTo me that doesn't seem plausible, because Augustine was more comfortable reading Greek than Latin and probably had a Greek manuscript. Are you sure he was reading a Latin manuscript?
It is not like falling from the sky .
When Adam was banished from the Garden of Eden
the word means also divorce,
Divorce comes before marriage.
Sin banishes the Shechinah, the Divine Presence.
A marriage in the wake of a divorce in spiritual terms,
is conceivable after a state of "Divorce" only when there was repentence in the interim.
"Indeed, it is impossible for the wicked to begin to serve G-d without first repenting for their past.
(Alter Rebbe)
there are no innocent children
It is not possible for me to reply (on this site) correctly to someone who believes in such catholic teachings.How then does an infant sin before the age od reason?
That's interesting. I suppose the Latin mistranslation theory is a good one then.I'm not so sure this is true. How Bad Were Augustine's Greek Skills? - exegetical.tools
This seems to be different from the view described by @caerlerion which I understood to be that Adam opened the door for death to enter the world, and anybody who sinned exposed himself/herself to death. So there was no hereditary sin from Adam's mistake, but there was a new risk of death that could only be resisted through a sinless life. Am I summarizing that wrong?According to all Scripture, there are no innocent children as if free from sin and deserving death.
The best commentary of Romans that I know (Dunn) thinks that 5:12-14 actually doesn’t make a clear choice between corporate sin and individual sin. Paul is unlikely to have meant quite the Augustinian meaning. But I believe he did recognize the corporate nature of sin. We don’t just all individually happen to sin. Much of our sin is collective. But we also all (except maybe infants) have individual responsibility as well.How then does an infant sin before the age od reason?
Here is a link I found about the Garden of Eden from a Jewish perspective. Does that match your thinking on it?
The Story of Adam and Eve in the Bible
It occurred to me that it is easier for me to love my neighbor if he/she is also trying to love me. Some of the corporate nature of sin might be the "what goes around comes around" type. Drop somebody into a war zone and see how well he can practice "love thy neighbor".But I believe he did recognize the corporate nature of sin. We don’t just all individually happen to sin. Much of our sin is collective. But we also all (except maybe infants) have individual responsibility as well.
I imagine two guys in hell:
- What are you in for?
- I raped a child and killed my parents. What about you?
- I did yoga and listened to The Beatles.
I mean, it is of course possible that God will send you to hell for listening to a particular type of music, but then it's impossible to say what will determine who goes where in the afterlife. For all we know only people with white socks go to heaven, because if it depends on your taste in music, it has nothing to do with morality or what we call logic.
Yep. Better here than on Facebook
By all means do, I'm not one to do personal attacks on forums. Personally I'm here because I think some of the debates are interesting and fun.
LOL, you have a way with words("What an amazing trade off. Ones salvation for the freedom to play horrible music and wear women's yoga pants.")
BTW, if you post that thread I would be happy to explain why I come to CF (FWIW). The "world religions" sub-forum is the only one that I follow consistently.
And, my inspiration for creating this thread was my realization that Christianity could be a lot more marketable in modern society if certain doctrines were gone. Of course that doesn't mean those doctrines SHOULD be gone - maybe they are essential unpleasant truths. But I have a suspicion that some of these doctrines that turn people away from Christianity are being misused.
What about meditations on the Breath? Is that type of meditation satanic? Our breath is a gift from God, it's not New Age or Eastern Religion or anything like that is why I ask.
Adding or subtracting from the Bible is a sure way to spend eternity in hell fire. Christianity isn't supposed to be marketable or popular in the world..
Oof, Protestants are going to be in a rough spot what with marking the Deuterocanonical books as Apocryphal hereby enabling their Bibles to be reduced to 66 books.
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