Mission

[Jerrysch]

Does Jesus literally have a sharp two-edged sword coming out of His mouth? (Rev.1:16) No the two edged sword that proceeds from His mouth is symbolic for His word.

Where do you find that meaning?

 

[Jerrysch]

Jesus is neither a lion or a lamb yet is described as such in Revelation. It is absurd to assume anything in Revelation should be taken at face value, it was not meant to be.

I have never suggested that there are no symbols or figures of speach in this book, but I do suggest that the meaning must be derrived from other places in the Scripture, the whole council of God must be evaluated.

It is absured to state that everything in Revelation is symbolic, that is what is absurd.

 

[Jerrysch]

Also this book is a Revelation of Jesus Christ! If it does not reveal Him to you, there is something amiss in your interpretaion!

"

That conclusion can only be drawn if you do not see everything as symbolic. If everything is symbolic as you have suggested even this reference to Jesus Christ must be symbolic!!

 

[Jerrysch]

"Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy," (Rev.1:3) This is the only book in the Bible that promises a blessing to those who "hear" the words contained therein. Sorry, but I don't get a blessing from the Darby school of biblical interpretation.

And you wont get the blessing God intended if you change the meanings of the words He used when He sought to communicate it to you!

 

[Jerrysch]

Hello JM.

Went to my Brighton commentary on Revelation. This is from footnote #45, p. 191. First he says that the OT has 16 lists of the twelve tribes according to the sons of Jacob. There are lists by birth order and by land.

"The chief difference between the two kings of lists is that while Joseph and Levi are among the twelve in Gen. 35:23-26, Joseph's two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, take the place of Joseph and Levi in the allotment of the Promised Land: Joseph received a double portion of the land through his two sons, while Levi received cities throughout the territiories of the other tribes. (Josh 16:1-4; 17:14-18; Ezek 48:4-5; Josh 21:1-3)."

He then goes on in the body of the commentary - "...Judah is mentioned first, but he was actually the fourth born. Joseph and Benjamin are correctly listed eleventh and twelfth according to the order of birth. Manasseh, who was a son of Joseph and a grandson of Israel and who is listed as one of the twelve tribes in the allotment of the land, is mentioned. But Manasseh's brother, Ephraim, is completely missing even though he (like his brother) was alloted a portion of the land! Another son of Israel by birth and also one of the twelve tribes allotted a portion of land was Dan. But he woo is completely missing from John's list of the tribes. In this list in Revelation, Levi and Joseph, who were sons of Jacob but who were not alloted a portion of the land, have taken the place of Ephraim and Dan, who were allotted portions.

John gives no explanation for these differences between his list and those in the OT. However, certain conclusions can be surmised. Judah is probably mentioned first because the Messiah came from this tribe. Dan is missing probably because it was in this tribe that graven images were erected, so that Dan became associated with idolatry (Judg 18:1-31). ...In the pseudepigrapha, Dan was thus asociated with apostasy and idolatry. ...Ephraim was connected with this apostasy and idolatry because it was in league with Dan. ...It is clear that a redefined list of the twelve tribes of Israel is used in Rev 7:5-8: a list that has been cleansed of any association of apostasy and idolatry; a list that emphasizes faithfulness to God, hence the inclusion of Joseph and Levi; and in particular a list that focuses on the Messiah because of the placement of Judah.

Thus in rev 7:4-8 the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel serve to symbolize the church of Jesus Christ. The use of the number 144,000, twelve thousand from each tribe, points to the church militant, ready for mission, in her marching order. The specific names in the redefined list show she is cleansed from idolarty and apostasy. And she is sealed, protected in her faith, as she stand as a witness in the time of tribulation."

Hope this helps.

Pax

Well you started out good but I fail to see you you drew your conclusion based upon the information you presented.

"Thus in rev 7:4-8 the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel serve to symbolize the church of Jesus Christ."

The quote from Brighton's commentary on Revelation did not say one word regarding the "church militant,". You are adding your opinion into what this commentary stated. It can hardly be used as evidence of your conclusion.

 

[Dispy]

What is the mission of the 144,000 refered to in Rev. 7?

In Matthew 21:43, Jesus is speaking to the leaders of Israel. The same one he is speaking about in Matthew 23:1-3, that He told the multitude and His disciples to "obsere and do."

In 21:43 Jesus says: "Therefor say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth fruits thereof."

45 "And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard this parable, they perceived that he spake of them."

Well Revelation 7:4-9 speaks of 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel (144,000). The will be Israel's contribution in the Tribulation. Verses 9-14 shows the fruit of their ministry.

If anyone thinks that all the numbers in the book of Revelation are figurative, then so must the fruit of the 144,000's labor.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!