Missing Catholicism: What Evangelicals get Wrong About Catholic Teaching of Salvation

[Tolkien R.R.J]

Missing Catholicism: What Evangelicals Get Wrong about Catholic Teaching of Salvation
By Jeb Smith / March 1, 2025
Missing Catholicism: What Evangelicals Get Wrong about Catholic Teaching of Salvation – The Postil Magazine

 

[Valletta]

Missing Catholicism: What Evangelicals Get Wrong about Catholic Teaching of Salvation
By Jeb Smith / March 1, 2025
Missing Catholicism: What Evangelicals Get Wrong about Catholic Teaching of Salvation – The Postil Magazine

I thought it was well written.

 

[Tolkien R.R.J]

I thought it was well written.

Thank you!

Do you agree or disagree with the overall theme.

 

[concretecamper]

The Conclusion

"It seems that both our groups, throughout history, have exaggerated our differences at various times, often due to misunderstandings. We have always been closer than we imagined, and Catholics and evangelicals are one in Christ."


The author misses the mark big time.

The Catholic Church teaches that only the Baptized are part of His Body. Many who call themselves Evangelical are not Baptized

The Catholic Church teaches that for those who have reached the age of reason, the Eucharist is required for Salvation. According to Church teaching, Evangelicals do not have access to the Eucharist.

The Mass, Divine Liturgy, is the way Christ established to worship God. According to Church teaching, Evangelicals do not participate in Divine worship.

The article misses the mark on what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation.

 

[Dan Perez]

The Conclusion

"It seems that both our groups, throughout history, have exaggerated our differences at various times, often due to misunderstandings. We have always been closer than we imagined, and Catholics and evangelicals are one in Christ."


The author misses the mark big time.

The Catholic Church teaches that only the Baptized are part of His Body. Many who call themselves Evangelical are not Baptized

The Catholic Church teaches that for those who have reached the age of reason, the Eucharist is required for Salvation. According to Church teaching, Evangelicals do not have access to the Eucharist.

The Mass, Divine Liturgy, is the way Christ established to worship God. According to Church teaching, Evangelicals do not participate in Divine worship.

The article misses the mark on what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation.

And it will all that post , if they reply with verses , from the KJV BIBLE !!

dan p

 

[ARBITER01]

Missing Catholicism: What Evangelicals Get Wrong about Catholic Teaching of Salvation
By Jeb Smith / March 1, 2025
Missing Catholicism: What Evangelicals Get Wrong about Catholic Teaching of Salvation – The Postil Magazine

Doesn't seem like the guy has a realistic understanding of the catholic church.

 

[RileyG]

The Conclusion

"It seems that both our groups, throughout history, have exaggerated our differences at various times, often due to misunderstandings. We have always been closer than we imagined, and Catholics and evangelicals are one in Christ."


The author misses the mark big time.

The Catholic Church teaches that only the Baptized are part of His Body. Many who call themselves Evangelical are not Baptized

The Catholic Church teaches that for those who have reached the age of reason, the Eucharist is required for Salvation. According to Church teaching, Evangelicals do not have access to the Eucharist.

The Mass, Divine Liturgy, is the way Christ established to worship God. According to Church teaching, Evangelicals do not participate in Divine worship.

The article misses the mark on what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation.

Correct, but If I understand correctly, those outside the Church can be saved due to invisible ignorance per the catechism.

Correct me, if I'm wrong.

Blessings

 

[RileyG]

And it will all that post , if they reply with verses , from the KJV BIBLE !!

dan p

Why one the KJV?

 

[concretecamper]

Correct, but If I understand correctly, those outside the Church can be saved due to invisible ignorance per the catechism.

Correct me, if I'm wrong.

Blessings

You are not wrong. We leave that decision to God.

But where people go off the rails is they tend to apply "invisible ignorance" too broadly. I've seen Catholics apply that term to everyone outside the Catholic Church.

 

[Tolkien R.R.J]

The Conclusion

"It seems that both our groups, throughout history, have exaggerated our differences at various times, often due to misunderstandings. We have always been closer than we imagined, and Catholics and evangelicals are one in Christ."


The author misses the mark big time.

The Catholic Church teaches that only the Baptized are part of His Body. Many who call themselves Evangelical are not Baptized

The Catholic Church teaches that for those who have reached the age of reason, the Eucharist is required for Salvation. According to Church teaching, Evangelicals do not have access to the Eucharist.

The Mass, Divine Liturgy, is the way Christ established to worship God. According to Church teaching, Evangelicals do not participate in Divine worship.

The article misses the mark on what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation.

Context! What you say is true for Catholic in the Church, not for Christians outside of it. For ensample the article states,

And for what it is worth, the Catholic Church holds that Protestants are “brought up in the faith of Christ” and “have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church” (CCC, 818, also see 819). Medieval scholar William of Tyre wrote that despite being viewed as schismatic, out of communion with Rome, or even heretical, the Christians in the Holy Land were “true Christians.”

And


The possible salvation of a heretic, a Jew or a pagan is not only a theological ‘view,’ but definitely Catholic doctrine…According to Catholic theology it is, therefore, quite possible that John Hus’ soul went straight to heaven after his death at the stake, provided he sincerely believed in his own views, however erroneous. The Augustinian dictum (In psalm. cvi. 14): ‘How many who do not belong to us are really inside, how many of our own people are actually outside [the Church],’ has at all times been accepted by the Catholic Church (Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, Liberty or Equality: The Challenge of our Times).


But the focal point of this article was not how Catholics view evangelicals like, but how evangelicals view Catholics. Are Catholics "saved" from the evangelical point of view. So I do think you have missed the article!

 

[Tolkien R.R.J]

Correct, but If I understand correctly, those outside the Church can be saved due to invisible ignorance per the catechism.

Correct me, if I'm wrong.

Blessings

Indeed.

And for what it is worth, the Catholic Church holds that Protestants are “brought up in the faith of Christ” and “have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church” (CCC, 818, also see 819). Medieval scholar William of Tyre wrote that despite being viewed as schismatic, out of communion with Rome, or even heretical, the Christians in the Holy Land were “true Christians.”

And


The possible salvation of a heretic, a Jew or a pagan is not only a theological ‘view,’ but definitely Catholic doctrine…According to Catholic theology it is, therefore, quite possible that John Hus’ soul went straight to heaven after his death at the stake, provided he sincerely believed in his own views, however erroneous. The Augustinian dictum (In psalm. cvi. 14): ‘How many who do not belong to us are really inside, how many of our own people are actually outside [the Church],’ has at all times been accepted by the Catholic Church (Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, Liberty or Equality: The Challenge of our Times).

 

[concretecamper]

So I do think you have missed the article!

No I didn't. The article attempted to highlight what we share in common. What we have in common irrelevant to the Salvation of souls. Evangelicals sharing some of the same beliefs as the Catholic Church is pointless if they are not Baptized or do not receive the Eucharist (according to the Catholic Church)

the Conclusion that I post from the article sums up what the author is saying. I'll post it again.

"It seems that both our groups, throughout history, have exaggerated our differences at various times, often due to misunderstandings. We have always been closer than we imagined, and Catholics and evangelicals are one in Christ."

The articles claims that evangelicals and Catholics are closer than we imagine. That is false. Agreements between evangelicals and The Catholic Church are on the non-essentials only, and they are miles apart on the essentials.

Also, the article omits precisely what the Church teaches about salvation. So for those 2 reason, the article misses the mark bigley.

And for what it is worth, the Catholic Church holds that Protestants are “brought up in the faith of Christ” and “have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church” (CCC, 818, also see 819). Medieval scholar William of Tyre wrote that despite being viewed as schismatic, out of communion with Rome, or even heretical, the Christians in the Holy Land were “true Christians.”

you mis-quote the CCC. Here are the 2 paragraphs you quoted

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276


Those who call themselves Christians who ARE NOT BAPTIZED are not members of His Body (according to Catholic Church teaching). Those evangelicals who are Baptized are Christians, part of His Body. And just like wayward Catholics (who reject Church Authority and Teaching) , can be severed from The Vine.

 

[Tolkien R.R.J]

No I didn't. The article attempted to highlight what we share in common. What we have in common irrelevant to the Salvation of souls. Evangelicals sharing some of the same beliefs as the Catholic Church is pointless if they are not Baptized or do not receive the Eucharist (according to the Catholic Church)

the Conclusion that I post from the article sums up what the author is saying. I'll post it again.

"It seems that both our groups, throughout history, have exaggerated our differences at various times, often due to misunderstandings. We have always been closer than we imagined, and Catholics and evangelicals are one in Christ."

The articles claims that evangelicals and Catholics are closer than we imagine. That is false. Agreements between evangelicals and The Catholic Church are on the non-essentials only, and they are miles apart on the essentials.

Also, the article omits precisely what the Church teaches about salvation. So for those 2 reason, the article misses the mark bigley.


you mis-quote the CCC. Here are the 2 paragraphs you quoted

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276


Those who call themselves Christians who ARE NOT BAPTIZED are not members of His Body (according to Catholic Church teaching). Those evangelicals who are Baptized are Christians, part of His Body. And just like wayward Catholics (who reject Church Authority and Teaching) , can be severed from The Vine.

I appreciate your interest, but I think you are wrong on both accounts. And it seems that you read the conclusion but not the article!

First, this article is directed at evangelicals and how they should view Catholicism. Are Catholics "saved" from the evangelical view? Even if Catholics condemned everyone who is not Catholic to Hell, it has nothing to do with the main thrust of the article; I think you have "missed" that.

Secondly, you have missed the total dogma of the Catholics on this issue. For baptism of desire, here are two quick links below. In summary, if Christians (or non-Christians) knew baptism was necessary and would be baptized, they are accounted for as if they were baptized. You will not find many, if any, Catholics who would hold to your position of Catholicism!

Baptism of Desire

Recent doctrinal development has made clear that it is possible for one to receive baptism of desire by an implicit desire. This is the principle that makes it possible for non-Christians to be saved.

www.catholic.com

Baptism of Desire - Church Authorities

www.traditionalcatholic.net

 

[concretecamper]

Secondly, you have missed the total dogma of the Catholics on this issue. For baptism of desire, here are two quick links below. In summary, if Christians (or non-Christians) knew baptism was necessary and would be baptized, they are accounted for as if they were baptized. You will not find many, if any, Catholics who would hold to your position of Catholicism!

Baptism of Desire is exclusively for those considered as Catechumens who die before they receive The Sacrament Baptism. Having an implicit or explicit desire only means what stage you are in when speaking about Catechumans.

I concern myself with what His Church teaches, not what the majority of Catholics may believe.

None of the references you posted disagrees with what I posted. In fact much of it confirms what I posted.

If there is a specific item where you think I may have posted something not in accordance with His Church's teaching, please let me know

 

[RileyG]

You are not wrong. We leave that decision to God.

But where people go off the rails is they tend to apply "invisible ignorance" too broadly. I've seen Catholics apply that term to everyone outside the Catholic Church.

I agree.

 

[Tolkien R.R.J]

Baptism of Desire is exclusively for those considered as Catechumens who die before they receive The Sacrament Baptism. Having an implicit or explicit desire only means what stage you are in when speaking about Catechumans.

I concern myself with what His Church teaches, not what the majority of Catholics may believe.

None of the references you posted disagrees with what I posted. In fact much of it confirms what I posted.

If there is a specific item where you think I may have posted something not in accordance with His Church's teaching, please let me know

No offense, but The Catholic Church disagrees with you, and I prefer to take their opinion over yours! After all, you have misunderstood the article you quote here why should i think you have been the only one to properly understand catholic dogma when you claim they cannot themselves. You are not on solid ground. But believe as you wish, i care not! The article addresses Catholicism, not as interpreted by a random poster on a forum.

The Church teachers baptized and unbaptized Christians, and even those of other faiths and atheists can be saved.


Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience (Lumen Gentium 16).

…though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel (Ad Gentes, 7).

 

[concretecamper]

No offense

None taken

but The Catholic Church disagrees with you,

I think it is better said that your interpretation of what the Catholic Church teaches disagrees with me

The Church teachers baptized and unbaptized Christians, and even those of other faiths and atheists can be saved.


Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience (Lumen Gentium 16).

…though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel (Ad Gentes, 7).

1. First, an Atheist who seeks God, and seeks to please Him? Let me know when you come across one of those
2. I was hoping that you would post a teaching from His Church that says certain non-christians or atheists ARE saved.

You are not on solid ground. But believe as you wish, i care not!

I'm the only one reading what the words say. Can be saved IS NOT the same as IS SAVED.

The Church does suffer at times with inclusive language which leads to confusion.

 

[The Liturgist]

The Catholic Church teaches that only the Baptized are part of His Body. Many who call themselves Evangelical are not Baptized

This is a good point. The omission seems to be because the author was focusing on mainstream Protestants and did not address the Anabaptists and other Credobaptists and some of the more unusual Restorationist groups which eschew baptism. Thus, on CF.com, I get on famously with most learned traditional Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox whether Eastern or Oriental, but frequently find a lack of theological commonality the further away from the traditional mainstream denominations one travels.

And conversely among the mainstream denominations and within Roman Catholicism, the author overlooks another problem, which is the destructive impact of liberation theology and modernism, which Pope St. Pius X and various conservative Protestants warned about. There are even modernist elements who have tried, thus far unsuccesfully, to get into the Orthodox churches - if they do succeed, it will likely be by exploiting the emerging rupture between the EP and most of the Greek churches except Jerusalem, and churches like Jerusalem, Antioch, Bulgaria, Serbia, Georgia, Czechia and Slovakia, etc, which are at odds with Constantinople.

But the article does confirm what many of us already knew: for mainstream sacramental Protestants there is very little difference with Roman Catholicism.

 

[The Liturgist]

No offense, but The Catholic Church disagrees with you, and I prefer to take their opinion over yours! After all, you have misunderstood the article you quote here why should i think you have been the only one to properly understand catholic dogma when you claim they cannot themselves. You are not on solid ground. But believe as you wish, i care not! The article addresses Catholicism, not as interpreted by a random poster on a forum.

The Church teachers baptized and unbaptized Christians, and even those of other faiths and atheists can be saved.


Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience (Lumen Gentium 16).

…though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel (Ad Gentes, 7).

You seem to be confusing the Baptism of Desire with Invincible Ignorance, but what you describe is not entirely consistent with either. It is closer to the views of Apokatastasis taught by a minority of early church fathers such as Origen, St. Gregory of Nyssa and St. Isaac the Syrian, which was also for a time the official doctrine of the Church of the East prior to the genocide of Tamerlane and Islamic oppression (perhaps these events caused them to realize there are true misotheists who hate God and virtue and exclude themselves from salvation).

 

[Tolkien R.R.J]

This is a good point. The omission seems to be because the author was focusing on mainstream Protestants and did not address the Anabaptists and other Credobaptists and some of the more unusual Restorationist groups which eschew baptism. Thus, on CF.com, I get on famously with most learned traditional Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox whether Eastern or Oriental, but frequently find a lack of theological commonality the further away from the traditional mainstream denominations one travels.

And conversely among the mainstream denominations and within Roman Catholicism, the author overlooks another problem, which is the destructive impact of liberation theology and modernism, which Pope St. Pius X and various conservative Protestants warned about. There are even modernist elements who have tried, thus far unsuccesfully, to get into the Orthodox churches - if they do succeed, it will likely be by exploiting the emerging rupture between the EP and most of the Greek churches except Jerusalem, and churches like Jerusalem, Antioch, Bulgaria, Serbia, Georgia, Czechia and Slovakia, etc, which are at odds with Constantinople.

But the article does confirm what many of us already knew: for mainstream sacramental Protestants there is very little difference with Roman Catholicism.

If you search into official Catholic dogma you will find baptism is not necessary, it is a mode in which non catholic are brought into communion with God and accepted but not the only! As i pointed out baptism of desire always applies. That is if protestants knew baptism was necessary and they would be baptized because of it, that counts just the same. Also, those "brought up in the faith of Christ"

Further, non Christians can be saved.

Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience (Lumen Gentium 16).

…though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6), yet a necessity lies upon the Church (1 Cor. 9:16), and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel (Ad Gentes, 7).


The possible salvation of a heretic, a Jew or a pagan is not only a theological ‘view,’ but definitely Catholic doctrine…According to Catholic theology it is, therefore, quite possible that John Hus’ soul went straight to heaven after his death at the stake, provided he sincerely believed in his own views, however erroneous. The Augustinian dictum (In psalm. cvi. 14): ‘How many who do not belong to us are really inside, how many of our own people are actually outside [the Church],’ has at all times been accepted by the Catholic Church (Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, Liberty or Equality: The Challenge of our Times).