Misinterpretation.

[Michael26]

Can someone explain to me how Calvinist leave out the fact that Paul is obviously talking about how God's promise to Abraham is not nullified by the fact that some Israelites aren't considered heirs to the promise in chapter 9 - 12 and in fact not referring to the salvation of all men? They have taken verses completely out of context and warped them into a doctrine that from a practical perspective contradicts itself in numerous ways. Paul makes it clear what he is talking about at the beginning of chapter 9. He is making reference to how God's word is faithful despite the fact that not all of Israel received the new covenant. That being said why can't God's election include man's will? Why does the idea that God chooses those who he knows want and will ask for his salvation such a ridiculous concept?

 

[bradfordl]

Can someone explain to me how Calvinist leave out the fact that Paul is obviously talking about how God's promise to Abraham is not nullified by the fact that some Israelites aren't considered heirs to the promise in chapter 9 - 12 and in fact not referring to the salvation of all men?

Which parts do you think don't apply to the salvation of all men, and why?

They have taken verses completely out of context and warped them into a doctrine that from a practical perspective contradicts itself in numerous ways.

Please provide evidence for this assertion.

That being said why can't God's election include man's will? Why does the idea that God chooses those who he knows want and will ask for his salvation such a ridiculous concept?

Because, neighbor, that would make the deciding factor between those redeemed and those condemned to be something that lies within the redeemed themselves that is 'better' than the condemned. 'Not of yourselves, but the gift of God' doesn't fit well with that idea. If none are worthy, then possessing this "want and will" comes from where? Are you saved because you were smart enough to "want and will", but your unsaved neighbor wasn't smart enough? Or is it because God "will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He wills He hardens."?

 

[A New Dawn]

Can someone explain to me how Calvinist leave out the fact that Paul is obviously talking about how God's promise to Abraham is not nullified by the fact that some Israelites aren't considered heirs to the promise in chapter 9 - 12 and in fact not referring to the salvation of all men? They have taken verses completely out of context and warped them into a doctrine that from a practical perspective contradicts itself in numerous ways. Paul makes it clear what he is talking about at the beginning of chapter 9. He is making reference to how God's word is faithful despite the fact that not all of Israel received the new covenant. That being said why can't God's election include man's will? Why does the idea that God chooses those who he knows want and will ask for his salvation such a ridiculous concept?

Can you clarify which book you are referring to?

Thanks.

 

[bradfordl]

I assume he was refering to the book of Romans.

 

[heymikey80]

Paul explicitly jumps outside the nation of Israel to talk about Gentiles from 9:24-eoc, 10:11-13, 11:11-13, 11:17-26.

Paul explicitly talks about the salvation of people, not simply the selection of people, in 9:23-24, :27-30, 10:1, :4, :9-12, :16, 11:7, :11, :25-26

Paul is expanding on the position of those who are called to Christ in Romans 8. It's not simply a whole new subject. Paul is talking about the Jewish people in light of Christ's call to His people -- how to comprehend them. And if their election had nothing to do with salvation, Paul would have no reason to bring it up.

 

[skullkrusher]

Can someone explain to me how Calvinist leave out the fact that Paul is obviously talking about how God's promise to Abraham is not nullified by the fact that some Israelites aren't considered heirs to the promise in chapter 9 - 12 and in fact not referring to the salvation of all men? They have taken verses completely out of context and warped them into a doctrine that from a practical perspective contradicts itself in numerous ways. Paul makes it clear what he is talking about at the beginning of chapter 9. He is making reference to how God's word is faithful despite the fact that not all of Israel received the new covenant. That being said why can't God's election include man's will? Why does the idea that God chooses those who he knows want and will ask for his salvation such a ridiculous concept?

What contradicts itself, friend? Your post is too long, and lacks specificity. Be that as it may, I would question your understanding of what the will is. Our choices in relation to the Gospel are rooted in god's grace to us, or salvation is not of grace. don't make the mistake of treating the issue as if one passage of Scripture were the source of Reformed doctrinal views. Far from it.

I ask you: what is the will? And, what role does it play in relation to justification?