Misguiding others

[dab11999]

I was listening to the radio the other day and a "minister" was telling a caller about how faith should be based on facts. The facts of the Bible.
I completely disagree.
Even the Bible itself disagrees. The Bible teaches us that faith should be based on love. We should have faith in the Lord because we love him. Like when a child that is learning to walk holds out its hands to its parents because the child has faith that its parents will catch it. That is faith from love, the kind of faith that the Lord wants from us.
I might also like to point out that the Lord is going to be harsh on those who mislead his flock, because he has promised to be the Good Shepherd and wants us to have faith in him.

People become too complacent about their place of worship and the next thing you know it's a place of entertainment where people are likely to believe anything. I hear some callers talking about how their touchy feely good feelings are at a new high today so they must be having some kind of religious experience. Are you serious? The church is not a group therapy session. It's not a vaudeville act. It's a place where we should pray and be thankful to the Most High God for everything he has given us. In my opinion, keep all that other stuff in a social gathering area and keep the temple holy. This is the same sort of thing that angered the Lord and caused him to turn over the tables of the moneychangers. I'm with him.

Another minister was talking about what we do with our cave for the Lord. Nothing! I don't have a cave! I'm an open book for all to see! So is the Bible!

Others want to argue about the Sabbath. Why? To what end? The Lord tells us that the Sabbath is for man, not man for the Sabbath. Have it on whichever day benefits you the most. Just remember it to keep it holy.
You know what I say? Every day is the Sabbath. I'm thankful to the Lord every day. I find peace and rest in the spirit of my Lord, every day. What is there to argue about? All that it succeeds in doing is causing division and strife when there should be harmony and oneness of spirit before the Lord.

The Lord loves us and forgives much. But love is what we need to have. You don't need a doctorate in philosophically sound abstract thinking. Just love with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength. Every day. Have faith in his promise to be the Good Shepherd. Amen!

 

[miamited]

Hi Dab,

Ok, so would you please give the Scripture basis for your claim: Even the Bible itself disagrees. The Bible teaches us that faith should be based on love.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Goinheix]

That is missleading others. what you say is based on your thots and feelings but not in the bible.

 

[Nurbz]

Unfortunately, you're going to find that most of the time "What God wants" and "What the bible says" is pretty much indistinguishable from someone's opinion.

 

[RandoMWoN]

Everyone has differing opinions on how things should be, I don't think anything is wrong if it falls in line with what Jesus stood for.

 

[tturt]

dab1999, I understand about how strongly we can feel about things and I definitely agree we need to have more love for Yahweh and others. We've got to be careful though and not be offended. Often Spiritual things can be difficult to explain and sometimes I don't type what I'm thinking. Just wondering did you mean to end your argument with a statement that you argued against - Have faith in his promise to be the Good Shepherd? I believe His promises, too.

 

[dab11999]

Romans 13
8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1 Corinthians 3
18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

20And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;

22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;

23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Ephesians 1
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 4
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Collosians 2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

2 Timothy 3
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 5
6For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Matthew 18
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

Matthew 19
14But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 4
13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

Ephesians 3
17That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

 

[miamited]

Hi Dab,

Yes, that's the law. The law is not faith. What is the Scriptures definition of faith? Our faith, that is our assurance that we know what we believe, is based on facts. Fact: God is our Creator.
Fact: We have all sinned.
Fact: God has established a way in which our sin may be forgiven.
Fact: That way is through Jesus the Christ.

Those are the 'facts' on which believers establish their faith.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[wayfaring man]

It may be better to say faith is based on understanding, than on facts; because facts tend to correlate with knowledge, (while understanding fits well with being loving), and knowledge is associated with being "puffed up".

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. <-----> Romans 10:17

hearing -

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From G191; hearing (the act, the sense or the thing heard): - audience, ear, fame, which ye heard, hearing, preached, report, rumor.

G191 -

G191
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akouo&#772;
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A primary verb; to hear (in various senses): - give (in the) audience (of), come (to the ears), ([shall]) hear (-er, -ken), be noised, be reported, understand.

[ Sometimes one has to "dig deep" to uncover meaning.]

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. <-----> Hebrews 4:2

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: <-----> Ephesians 4:18

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. <-----> 1st Timothy 1:7

And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: <-----> Matthew 15:10

And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? <-----> Matthew 15:16

Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. <-----> 2nd Timothy 2:7

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. <-----> 1st John 5:20

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; <-----> Colossians 2:2

Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but charity edifies.
And if any man think that he knows any thing, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.
But if any man love God, the same is known of him. <-----> 1st Corinthians 8:1-3

Knowledge without understanding = blind/proud presumption.

But knowledge with understanding = humble/kind assurance.

And while love in some respects may indeed be blind, it is hardly proud nor presumptuous; but is largely humble natured and kindly assuring.

Or in other words, a tiny bit of knowledge without understanding allows one to think/act like they know an awful lot.

While even a tremendous amount of knowledge with understanding, keeps one properly sober and serene under, "the shadow of The Almighty". ( See Psalm 91 )

May The Word of The Lord Be Magnified !

wm

 

[ashout]

God wants us to read the bible and use it as best we understand it to serve him. if you don't understand something, you can still obey it like God intended. just decide what you best think it means and go with that, God will correct you if he loves you, or if he even see's that you need to be corrected. people argue over what loving your evil neighbor means, some feel they should be friends other feels they should be far from them and yet loving at the same time, as long as you do what is in your heart then you are right in what you do. God uses this to manipulate us lovingly to achieve his different Godly holy ends.

 

[Snoofles]

there's the verse in the bible that says "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.Romans 10:17. faith isn't based on love. it's because we come to the place of believing what we hear that the love for God grows, when we realize all He's done for us. you've gotta know what the bible says in order to believe it or not, hence the faith thing.

 

[ashout]

we grow when we read the bible and obey what we read. if your on the path of righteousness, then what you read in the bible will convict you to act a certain way, and you better act it or else. ...then your off the path. can people who get off the path of righteousness get back on? I'm not sure. can they?

 

[wayfaring man]

God wants us to read the bible and use it as best we understand it to serve him. if you don't understand something, you can still obey it like God intended. just decide what you best think it means and go with that, God will correct you if he loves you...

The chances of someone obeying instruction as it is intended without understanding that instruction is about the same as a ship without a rudder following a specific route through a great ocean...but as said, if God intervenes, (in compassionate regard for us in our pitiful endeavor) even that is possible !

May The Lord Be Praised !

wm

 

[wayfaring man]

we grow when we read the bible and obey what we read. if your on the path of righteousness, then what you read in the bible will convict you to act a certain way, and you better act it or else. ...then your off the path. can people who get off the path of righteousness get back on? I'm not sure. can they?

There's hope with the living.

Jeremiah Chapter 3


May The Lord Be Magnified !

wm