Misconceptions

[TraderJack]

Wow. I had no idea the word "umpire" was that old.

Yeah, and some bishop name Yogi the Great said:

It ain't over til it's over.

 

[TraderJack]

Originally Posted by TraderJack
So the theory goes as the Roman spin machine works.

Now, go find the unanimous consent of the fathers, you know, "Tradition", for:

1) the immaculate conception of Mary

2) the assumption of Mary

3) papal infallibility

Then you can talk about Rome being conformed to Scripture and "Tradition".

Until then, the Roman claims are likened to clouds without rain.

Let us know when you are off the ad hominem and decide to post an antithecal arguement with substance.

There is no "ad hominem".

But that's a good out to take for not being able to provide any ECFs teachings on those Roman dogmas.

 

[TraderJack]

Sorry, but that just reminded me of one of the funniest scenes in "Naked Gun"

LOL, I remember that scene.

 

[sunlover1]

Hey Sunlover

I agree, yes we are new creations and our desires are changed and yes good works come out of that.

Praise God.

I just believe also that if we lose our faith in the future and never regain it, we won't go to heaven...because we'll die with an unwillingness to repent of sin and no faith... so I see salvation as sort of a process...it's living with Christ every day of your life, and not leaving Him. If you do that until the end of your life, you have kept your salvation So when people accept Christ, I see that as just the beginning, not the end. This way, you could say that we are saved (from our old natures and old sins), and we're being saved, and we will be saved (from future sins which we'll have to repent of).

So what about our covenant relationship?
Here's a passage I thought you might like.

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenantb, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, workingc in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6795364#_ftn3 b covenant: or, testament
c working: or, doing

Well that's a big argument among Christians...lol.... but the Bible does say:



whoever perseveres till the end shall be saved

And Apostle Paul says:

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
15All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

What do you think about this? This kinda supports the idea that we have to keep our faith, we have to run this race to the end, we have to keep our salvation...nurture the little bit of the 'new life' that's been placed in us, and the fulness of which we'll reach in the Resurrection of the dead.

I would have to read the context to know. I do know there
are no contradictions, but you have to look closely to
see the fit sometimes.
And we are to fight the good fight of faith, of this I do know.

Sunlover, if it's not talking about salvation at all, why does it say:
"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?"

I think we see that passage a bit differently, but
that we arrive at almost the same conclusion..
And I think we both know.. in part.

I'm not saying that our works save us. I'm saying that in order for our faith to be living, saving faith, we need to live it out somehow and not just talk about it...we need to be children of God in truth, and not just in word. Would you agree with that?

Well I was talking more about our hearts if we are determined to keep on sinning in our hearts, we are rebels. If we are determined to obey God, even if we sin, the sins will be mistakes and not acts of active rebellion.

Heart of the matter.
Sounds great to me, but we need to remember the
backslider too. The prodigal sons...

And then I said..if a person accepts Christ but doesn't want to let go of their sins, they are still in rebellion and I'm not sure if they'll go to heaven then... but if they want to improve and let God change their lives, then their faith would bear fruit (good works) and would be "living" faith, which saves. So you see, faith, our intentions, and good works, are all connected in the end...they all lead to each other. Good tree, good fruit (although not perfect, until heaven)

Amen, something like that anyhow.

I guess this depends in the person comes back... if they come back to God, they would always be accepted, no matter how much they backslid. But if they don't want to come back...I don't know...what if they eventually reject Christ.. that's tricky. The decision is up to God but I don't know if they could still be saved in that case. Thank God for the Holy Spirit who brings us back in repentance

God bless

monica

It is, isnt it? But I think the answer is always Christ.

Thank you monica, for sharing your heart and
for your respectful discussion.
I so appreciate the breath of fresh air.



sunlover

 

[sunlover1]

=sunlover1;43385671
May God help you to see His AMAZING grace.
sunlover

[/quote]

What I meant to convey was:
I pray God helps you to see the depth
of His amazing grace.
And not only you, but the rest of us
as well.
It's something we need to get a deep grasp of,
so that we dont live in fear and shame, with the
enemy pushing our buttons.
(Didnt mean to imply you dont know of His Grace)

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
he also himself likewise took part of the same;
that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death,
that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death
were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took notd on him the nature of angels;
but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,
that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted,
he is able to succour them that are tempted.​

d took not...: Gr. taketh not hold of angels, but of the seed of Abraham he taketh hold

 

[Thekla]

Praise God.



So what about our covenant relationship?
Here's a passage I thought you might like.

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenantb, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, workingc in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.b covenant: or, testament
c working: or, doing

its a prayer - a benediction, specifically

we pray along, too, that this will be fulfilled in us

 

[Catholic Christian]

So the theory goes as the Roman spin machine works.

We leave spin to the televangelists. We stick with the Holy Spirit

 

[Catholic Christian]

Yeah, and some bishop name Yogi the Great said:

So you mock an office SPECIFICALLY defined in the Bible:

Acts 1:20
For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. (KJV)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We leave spin to the televangelists. We stick with the Holy Spirit

WOW!!!! You guys also? Kewl!

 

[Catholic Christian]

1) the immaculate conception of Mary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGfx1Qqs8BI

2) the assumption of Mary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WwjFXw2yE0

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So you mock an office SPECIFICALLY defined in the Bible:

Acts 1:20
For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. (KJV)

The Roman church will always find ways to see the Pope in the Bible.

Luke 1:20 "For it is written in the book of Psalms: 'Let his dwelling place be desolate, And let no one live in it'; and, 'Let another take his office.'

psalm 69:24 Pour out Your indignation upon them, And hot anger He shall overtake them. 25 Shall become domiciles of the being desolate in tents of them. 26 That you whom you smote, they persecute, and to pain of ones wounded of you, they are recounting.

psalm 109:5 And they are placing on me evil under good and hatred under love of Me.
6 Give supervion over him, a wicked one, and an adversary shall stand on right of him.
7 In to be judged him, he shall fare forth condemned, and prayer of him shall become to sin.
8 They shall become days of him few ones, supervision of him, he shall take another
9 Sons of him shall become orphans and woman of him a widow
10 And roving they shall rove sons of him and they beg and they inquire from deserted houses of them.

 

[Catholic Christian]

The Roman church will always find ways to see the Pope in the Bible..

THIS time you GOOFED. Read the post I quoted

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Praise God.

So what about our covenant relationship?
Here's a passage I thought you might like.

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenantb, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, workingc in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Hey, well I believe that we're in the new covenant right now, and we have a relationship with God that's a good passage, the way I interpret it, Christ helps us do His will "through the blood of the everlasting covenant"

I would have to read the context to know. I do know there
are no contradictions, but you have to look closely to
see the fit sometimes.
And we are to fight the good fight of faith, of this I do know.

oki.

I think we see that passage a bit differently, but
that we arrive at almost the same conclusion..
And I think we both know.. in part.

I think sometimes, the wording traditional and evangelical Christians use can be very different. This creates misunderstanding on both sides...I do think we've reached the same conclusion though, and that's enough

Heart of the matter.
Sounds great to me, but we need to remember the
backslider too. The prodigal sons...

Yes, and God is definitely there for those people...longing for them to come back to Him.

It is, isnt it? But I think the answer is always Christ.

I think it all comes back to Him in the end...all of our faith.

Thank you monica, for sharing your heart and
for your respectful discussion.
I so appreciate the breath of fresh air.

Thank you sister I appreciate your respect and kindness on these forums.

God bless

monica

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Originally Posted by TraderJack
Define, "free will".

Did you choose to be "born again", which is to be "regenerated from above"?

This topic is very complex. I think only God really knows this and I'm leaving it up to Him.

It is very sad that you actually believe that.

You find it sad that I believe that unrepentance leads to hell? And that even if you have accepted Christ many years ago, if you never feel sorry for your present sins something is wrong? And that we must persevere till the end in our faith? And that unrepentance is a rebellion against God's grace?

Well...then I'm sorry, but that is what I believe.

peace

monica

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Why do you think Paul called himself "the chief sinner"?




It's because Paul knew he was a new creation in Christ who was still confined to a body infected with sin.

Then why 'chief' sinner and not just 'sinner'? I think it was humility...

 

[MoNiCa4316]

What I meant to convey was:
I pray God helps you to see the depth
of His amazing grace.
And not only you, but the rest of us
as well.
It's something we need to get a deep grasp of,
so that we dont live in fear and shame, with the
enemy pushing our buttons.
(Didnt mean to imply you dont know of His Grace)

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
he also himself likewise took part of the same;
that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death,
that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death
were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took notd on him the nature of angels;
but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,
that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted,
he is able to succour them that are tempted.​

d took not...: Gr. taketh not hold of angels, but of the seed of Abraham he taketh hold

I understand, Sunlover I pray for that too, for myself and for everyone else.
God bless.

monica

 

[HisKid1973]

We're all travelers and aliens here letting His word be a lamp to our feet(moment by moment) and a light to our path(long term journey). Peace to y'all.K

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Hey everyone, I feel like God has been telling me something. I want to share it here.

We argue so much about how we are saved...whether it's instantaneous or not, OSAS or not, faith alone or faith lived out...

But really the important thing..is to just get to know Jesus intimately. Then doctrine would make more sense, because we would know it through experience. And then, we would be filled with His love and it would flow from us into the world...this would result in good works, but we would be so focused on Christ that we would simply keep on praising Him, and stay humble. We would trust Jesus totally for everything, but at the same time yearn to please Him, not for rewards but simply to see Him happy. We would want our wills aligned to His will, because that is what He wants. Then..we would just come to Jesus as children and leave the theological details up to Him.

I pray that He would make us all into such people. I think I've made a mistake by spending so much debating rather than seeking Him.

Please forgive me if I've been harsh sometimes in this thread (and others), I feel like I have been. If you don't agree with my beliefs, that is alright, and I know that one day we will all "see clearly".. Right now, all we could do is trust fully in Christ and not ourselves.

God bless!

monica

 

[MoNiCa4316]

We're all travelers and aliens here letting His word be a lamp to our feet(moment by moment) and a light to our path(long term journey). Peace to y'all.K

Amen, HisKid

 

[E.C.]

The Roman church will always find ways to see the Pope in the Bible.

The Protestants will always find ways to start fires on what they hate as well as finding fuel.