Misconceptions about Evolutionary Creationism (or Theistic Evolution)

[sparow]

When you're claiming that something isn't scientific, yes, it's a problem when all the people doing actual science disagree with you.

It's one usage of the word. In a forum devoted to 'theistic evolution', it just so happens to be the relevant usage.

Since the real subject of the theory is the genetic change in populations over time, and since that definition is widely published, you appear to be confused here.

There is a lot of good stuff around today, in terms of knowledge and invention, I do not know that science is the right word to describe that. 90% of what is called science today should be called metaphysics or wokenness (enlightened).

Well, confused I am, you appear to be verbally deceived. My first perception of your term “theistic evolution” in terms of your definition of evolution, was the observable population of gods changing over time.

My knowledge of Darwin's theories are simplistic and are what I remember from third class, 1947 or 48, I had two text books, a geography book and a history text book. The geography book had half a page in the theory of evolution and we had one 40 minute period on it. I don' recall any of the content, but the teacher suggest we go to the library and look it up in the encyclopedia; I recall the pictures of a monkey changing into a man. The history book had a lot on Darwin as a sea fairing botonist.

 

[sfs]

90% of what is called science today should be called metaphysics or wokenness (enlightened).

I invite you to pick a recent issue of any scientific journal and point out the 90% that you think is metaphysics or 'wokeness'.

Well, confused I am, you appear to be verbally deceived. My first perception of your term “theistic evolution” in terms of your definition of evolution, was the observable population of gods changing over time.

I hope you now realize that that's not what that pair of words means.

 

[sparow]

I invite you to pick a recent issue of any scientific journal and point out the 90% that you think is metaphysics or 'wokeness'.

I hope you now realize that that's not what that pair of words means.

Theistic Evolution is an oxymoron, I don't expect God to be discussed in a scientific journal.

 

[HarleyER]

Despite the fact that we do not accept the creation stories are historical accounts, we maintain that God is the Creator of all and that He ordained and sustains everything in the universe, as professed by the Nicene Creed.

Every writer in the Old and New Testament refers to the first eleven chapters of Genesis (with the exception of the Book of Esther which is silent). Our Lord Jesus directly refers to the first seven chapters of Genesis as historical fact. So I'm not sure how one can maintain God is the "Creator" of all things and yet deny it when the scriptures says, "In the beginning, God created...".

 

[HarleyER]

I can honestly say that I don't think I've met an anti-evolutionary creationist on this forum who actually understands the position of evolutionary creation.

I was an evolutionary creationist until this last summer when I started a detailed study of Genesis 1-11. I have changed my position and believe in a literal 6 day creation as accurately recorded in scripture. If one looks at evolution carefully, it is without a doubt full of holes. I'm new here so I'm not familiar with all the arguments on this forum. However, it takes just as much faith to believe in evolution as it does in creation. So one can believe in an unexplainable evolution model given to us by secular scientists or one can accept what the scriptures teaches as the inspired Word of God.

 

[Job 33:6]

I can honestly say that I don't think I've met an anti-evolutionary creationist on this forum who actually understands the position of evolutionary creation.

I was an evolutionary creationist until this last summer when I started a detailed study of Genesis 1-11. I have changed my position and believe in a literal 6 day creation as accurately recorded in scripture. If one looks at evolution carefully, it is without a doubt full of holes. I'm new here so I'm not familiar with all the arguments on this forum. However, it takes just as much faith to believe in evolution as it does in creation. So one can believe in an unexplainable evolution model given to us by secular scientists or one can accept what the scriptures teaches as the inspired Word of God.

Do you believe in a solid sky dome raqia?

And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6

God made the dome, and separated the waters which were below the dome from the waters which were above the dome; and it was so. God called the dome heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20

And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And the Lord stood beside him [or stood above it] and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring;
Genesis 28:12‭-‬13

“You shall not make for yourself a divine image with any form that is in the heavens above or that is in the earth below or that is in the water below the earth.
Exodus 20:4

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14

He has described a circle [earths shape] on the face of the water between light and darkness. “The pillars of heaven tremble, and they are astounded at his rebuke.
Job 26:10‭-‬11

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

Have you entered the storehouse of the snow, or seen the armory of the hail,
Job 38:22
God stores his weapons and mana in storehouses to help the isrealites in battle, and to give gifts to His people.

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:13

‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭
The sun rises, and the sun goes down; to its place it hurries, and there it rises again.

Yet in all the world their line goes out, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has pitched a tent for the sun,
Psalms 19:4

The tree that you saw, which grew great and strong, so that its top reached to heaven and was visible to the end of the whole earth,
Daniel 4:20

The Lord sits enthroned over the flood; the Lord sits enthroned as king forever.
Psalms 29:10

Yet he commanded the skies above and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:23

you set the beams of your chambers on the waters, you make the clouds your chariot, you ride on the wings of the wind,
Psalms 104:3

He causes the clouds to arise from the end of the earth, makes lightning bolts accompany the rain, and brings the wind out of his storehouses.
Psalms 135:7

To him who spread out the earth above the waters, for his loyal love endures forever.
Psalms 136:6

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place *forever and ever*, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Psalms 150:1

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:18‬ ‭
[18] Whoever flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and whoever climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

and all the host of heaven shall rot. And the skies shall roll up like a scroll, and all their host shall wither like the withering of a leaf from a vine, or like the withering from a fig tree.
Isaiah 34:4

It is he who sits above the *circle* of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire stone; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form.
Ezekiel 1:26

And I looked, and look! On the dome that was above the head of the cherubim something like a stone of sapphire, and like the appearance of the shape of a throne it appeared above them.
Ezekiel 10:1

He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29

The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was why removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14

After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
Revelation 4:1

“Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you possess understanding. Who determined its measurement? Yes, you do know. Or who stretched the measuring line upon it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone,
Job 38:4‭-‬6

The earth and all its inhabitants are shaking; I steady its columns. Selah
Psalms 75:3

For the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, And he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:8

That's what it means to take the Bible "literally".

 

[HarleyER]

Do you believe in a solid sky dome raqia?

View attachment 341044

And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6

God made the dome, and separated the waters which were below the dome from the waters which were above the dome; and it was so. God called the dome heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20

And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And the Lord stood beside him [or stood above it] and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring;
Genesis 28:12‭-‬13

“You shall not make for yourself a divine image with any form that is in the heavens above or that is in the earth below or that is in the water below the earth.
Exodus 20:4

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14

He has described a circle [earths shape] on the face of the water between light and darkness. “The pillars of heaven tremble, and they are astounded at his rebuke.
Job 26:10‭-‬11

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

Have you entered the storehouse of the snow, or seen the armory of the hail,
Job 38:22
God stores his weapons and mana in storehouses to help the isrealites in battle, and to give gifts to His people.

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:13

‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭
The sun rises, and the sun goes down; to its place it hurries, and there it rises again.

Yet in all the world their line goes out, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has pitched a tent for the sun,
Psalms 19:4

The tree that you saw, which grew great and strong, so that its top reached to heaven and was visible to the end of the whole earth,
Daniel 4:20

The Lord sits enthroned over the flood; the Lord sits enthroned as king forever.
Psalms 29:10

Yet he commanded the skies above and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:23

you set the beams of your chambers on the waters, you make the clouds your chariot, you ride on the wings of the wind,
Psalms 104:3

He causes the clouds to arise from the end of the earth, makes lightning bolts accompany the rain, and brings the wind out of his storehouses.
Psalms 135:7

To him who spread out the earth above the waters, for his loyal love endures forever.
Psalms 136:6

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place *forever and ever*, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Psalms 150:1

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:18‬ ‭
[18] Whoever flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and whoever climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

and all the host of heaven shall rot. And the skies shall roll up like a scroll, and all their host shall wither like the withering of a leaf from a vine, or like the withering from a fig tree.
Isaiah 34:4

It is he who sits above the *circle* of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire stone; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form.
Ezekiel 1:26

And I looked, and look! On the dome that was above the head of the cherubim something like a stone of sapphire, and like the appearance of the shape of a throne it appeared above them.
Ezekiel 10:1

He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29

The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was why removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14

After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
Revelation 4:1

“Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you possess understanding. Who determined its measurement? Yes, you do know. Or who stretched the measuring line upon it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone,
Job 38:4‭-‬6

The earth and all its inhabitants are shaking; I steady its columns. Selah
Psalms 75:3

For the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, And he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:8

That's what it means to take the Bible "literally".

The concept of a dome surrounding the earth is interesting. I have read both the pros and cons about a dome. I think a dome is plausible. However, the scriptures are not clear so it is idle speculation. All we know is that there was a lot of water that deluged the world.

Taking the Bible "literally" is often people picking and choosing what to take literally. However, many of the writers of scriptures were very specific in referring to Noah and the whole world being condemned. 2 Peter 2:4-5 is very clear. God brought a flood. This flood was worldwide. God did not spare anyone except Noah and his family. The judgement of Noah's day is an example that God WILL one day bring judgement on the earth.

Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

2 Peter 2:5
if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

 

[Job 33:6]

The concept of a dome surrounding the earth is interesting. I have read both the pros and cons about a dome. I think a dome is plausible. However, the scriptures are not clear so it is idle speculation. All we know is that there was a lot of water that deluged the world.

Taking the Bible "literally" is often people picking and choosing what to take literally. However, many of the writers of scriptures were very specific in referring to Noah and the whole world being condemned. 2 Peter 2:4-5 is very clear. God brought a flood. This flood was worldwide. God did not spare anyone except Noah and his family. The judgement of Noah's day is an example that God WILL one day bring judgement on the earth.

Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

2 Peter 2:5
if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Why would the sky being made of a solid dome be plausible?

 

[sfs]

I was an evolutionary creationist until this last summer when I started a detailed study of Genesis 1-11. I have changed my position and believe in a literal 6 day creation as accurately recorded in scripture.

I'm not going to take issue with your reading of Genesis -- we're starting from such different understandings of what the Bible is and how it functions as scripture that there's not a lot of point. However, this statement is just wrong:

If one looks at evolution carefully, it is without a doubt full of holes. I'm new here so I'm not familiar with all the arguments on this forum. However, it takes just as much faith to believe in evolution as it does in creation.

Scientists don't accept evolution on faith. They (or rather, we) accept it because it provides a highly successful model that explains vast swathes of data from multiple scientific fields and that consistently accurately predicts new observation. It is the only model to do so. Direct creation fails badly at doing the same job, and young-earth creationism in particular is in spectacular disagreement with all of the data from a wide range of scientific disciplines. Generally, its proponents don't even attempt to explain the data.

 

[HarleyER]

I'm not going to take issue with your reading of Genesis -- we're starting from such different understandings of what the Bible is and how it functions as scripture that there's not a lot of point. However, this statement is just wrong:

Scientists don't accept evolution on faith. They (or rather, we) accept it because it provides a highly successful model that explains vast swathes of data from multiple scientific fields and that consistently accurately predicts new observation. It is the only model to do so. Direct creation fails badly at doing the same job, and young-earth creationism in particular is in spectacular disagreement with all of the data from a wide range of scientific disciplines. Generally, its proponents don't even attempt to explain the data.

I'm sorry but I find that evolution does not provide a highly successful model. It has been changed and modified since Darwin first published his atheist's thoughts. I am sure all the arguments have been given on all sides. However, I find that it isn't sensible to consider that everything on this planet has been evolving over a period of time. Science has never been able to show a direct correlation through artifacts the various stages of evolution. Of all the animals and men who have died, there are no fossils-not one-that shows a change man. All we have are books written by evolutionary scientists with very nice pictures of what various stages of man would have looked like.

Today Christians feel embarrassed for defending what the Biblical text plainly states. Scientific journals, and many Christian book publishers, will not allow arguments on Intelligent Design. So, what you read today is nothing more than propaganda of science academia as well as many recent liberal Christian publications.

What I’m confused about, is that if you find you cannot buy into creation, do you believe in other miracles. For example, the feeding of the five thousand, the parting of the Red Sea, Jesus walking on the water, etc. And what do you believe about Adam as part of the genealogy mentioned in Luke? According to Luke, there is no one before Adam. Is Luke wrong?

Luke 3:38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

 

[HarleyER]

Why would the sky being made of a solid dome be plausible?

What do you mean "solid"? Are you saying the dome is like iron or are you saying it's stable in shape?

To be clear, I'm not sure what happened back then since, fortunately, I wasn't there. All I know is "the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened." What that means precisely I'm not sure.

The question is whether you believe that there was a worldwide flood as is stated in scripture?

 

[Job 33:6]

I'm sorry but I find that evolution does not provide a highly successful model. It has been changed and modified since Darwin first published his atheist's thoughts. I am sure all the arguments have been given on all sides. However, I find that it isn't sensible to consider that everything on this planet has been evolving over a period of time. Science has never been able to show a direct correlation through artifacts the various stages of evolution. Of all the animals and men who have died, there are no fossils-not one-that shows a change man. All we have are books written by evolutionary scientists with very nice pictures of what various stages of man would have looked like.

Today Christians feel embarrassed for defending what the Biblical text plainly states. Scientific journals, and many Christian book publishers, will not allow arguments on Intelligent Design. So, what you read today is nothing more than propaganda of science academia as well as many recent liberal Christian publications.

What I’m confused about, is that if you find you cannot buy into creation, do you believe in other miracles. For example, the feeding of the five thousand, the parting of the Red Sea, Jesus walking on the water, etc. And what do you believe about Adam as part of the genealogy mentioned in Luke? According to Luke, there is no one before Adam. Is Luke wrong?

Luke 3:38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Do you read the Bible literally?

 

[HarleyER]

Do you read the Bible literally?

What is posted on YouTube is not the Bible. The question is do you believe what you read in the Bible? There are a lot of people these days who love to pick and choose what they would like to believe.

 

[Job 33:6]

What is posted on YouTube is not the Bible. The question is do you believe what you read in the Bible? There are a lot of people these days who love to pick and choose what they would like to believe.

What do you mean it's "not the Bible" ?

And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6

God made the dome, and separated the waters which were below the dome from the waters which were above the dome; and it was so. God called the dome heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20

And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And the Lord stood beside him [or stood above it] and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring;
Genesis 28:12‭-‬13

“You shall not make for yourself a divine image with any form that is in the heavens above or that is in the earth below or that is in the water below the earth.
Exodus 20:4

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14

He has described a circle [earths shape] on the face of the water between light and darkness. “The pillars of heaven tremble, and they are astounded at his rebuke.
Job 26:10‭-‬11

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

Have you entered the storehouse of the snow, or seen the armory of the hail,
Job 38:22
God stores his weapons and mana in storehouses to help the isrealites in battle, and to give gifts to His people.

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:13

‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭
The sun rises, and the sun goes down; to its place it hurries, and there it rises again.

Yet in all the world their line goes out, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has pitched a tent for the sun,
Psalms 19:4

The tree that you saw, which grew great and strong, so that its top reached to heaven and was visible to the end of the whole earth,
Daniel 4:20

The Lord sits enthroned over the flood; the Lord sits enthroned as king forever.
Psalms 29:10

Yet he commanded the skies above and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:23

you set the beams of your chambers on the waters, you make the clouds your chariot, you ride on the wings of the wind,
Psalms 104:3

He causes the clouds to arise from the end of the earth, makes lightning bolts accompany the rain, and brings the wind out of his storehouses.
Psalms 135:7

To him who spread out the earth above the waters, for his loyal love endures forever.
Psalms 136:6

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place *forever and ever*, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Psalms 150:1

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:18‬ ‭
[18] Whoever flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and whoever climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

and all the host of heaven shall rot. And the skies shall roll up like a scroll, and all their host shall wither like the withering of a leaf from a vine, or like the withering from a fig tree.
Isaiah 34:4

It is he who sits above the *circle* of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire stone; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form.
Ezekiel 1:26

And I looked, and look! On the dome that was above the head of the cherubim something like a stone of sapphire, and like the appearance of the shape of a throne it appeared above them.
Ezekiel 10:1

He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29

The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was why removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14

After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
Revelation 4:1

“Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you possess understanding. Who determined its measurement? Yes, you do know. Or who stretched the measuring line upon it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone,
Job 38:4‭-‬6

The earth and all its inhabitants are shaking; I steady its columns. Selah
Psalms 75:3

For the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, And
he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:8

 

[HarleyER]

What do you mean it's "not the Bible" ?

View attachment 341065

And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6

God made the dome, and separated the waters which were below the dome from the waters which were above the dome; and it was so. God called the dome heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7‭-‬8

And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20

And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And the Lord stood beside him [or stood above it] and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring;
Genesis 28:12‭-‬13

“You shall not make for yourself a divine image with any form that is in the heavens above or that is in the earth below or that is in the water below the earth.
Exodus 20:4

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14

He has described a circle [earths shape] on the face of the water between light and darkness. “The pillars of heaven tremble, and they are astounded at his rebuke.
Job 26:10‭-‬11

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18

can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18

Have you entered the storehouse of the snow, or seen the armory of the hail,
Job 38:22
God stores his weapons and mana in storehouses to help the isrealites in battle, and to give gifts to His people.

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:13

‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭
The sun rises, and the sun goes down; to its place it hurries, and there it rises again.

Yet in all the world their line goes out, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has pitched a tent for the sun,
Psalms 19:4

The tree that you saw, which grew great and strong, so that its top reached to heaven and was visible to the end of the whole earth,
Daniel 4:20

The Lord sits enthroned over the flood; the Lord sits enthroned as king forever.
Psalms 29:10

Yet he commanded the skies above and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:23

you set the beams of your chambers on the waters, you make the clouds your chariot, you ride on the wings of the wind,
Psalms 104:3

He causes the clouds to arise from the end of the earth, makes lightning bolts accompany the rain, and brings the wind out of his storehouses.
Psalms 135:7

To him who spread out the earth above the waters, for his loyal love endures forever.
Psalms 136:6

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place *forever and ever*, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Psalms 150:1

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:18‬ ‭
[18] Whoever flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and whoever climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

and all the host of heaven shall rot. And the skies shall roll up like a scroll, and all their host shall wither like the withering of a leaf from a vine, or like the withering from a fig tree.
Isaiah 34:4

It is he who sits above the *circle* of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22

Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22

And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire stone; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form.
Ezekiel 1:26

And I looked, and look! On the dome that was above the head of the cherubim something like a stone of sapphire, and like the appearance of the shape of a throne it appeared above them.
Ezekiel 10:1

He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-‬29

The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was why removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14

After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
Revelation 4:1

“Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you possess understanding. Who determined its measurement? Yes, you do know. Or who stretched the measuring line upon it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone,
Job 38:4‭-‬6

The earth and all its inhabitants are shaking; I steady its columns. Selah
Psalms 75:3

For the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, And
he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:8

Cutting and pasting various passages out of context doesn't do anyone any good. I'm not sure what translation you are using but I can't find anything anything about a "dome" in the NASB except for a passage in Amos 9:6 talking about the heavens.

However, I noticed that you failed to say whether you believe the Bible. So, I'm not sure what your intend is in posting all these Bible quotes if you don't even believe the Bible.

 

[Job 33:6]

Cutting and pasting various passages out of context doesn't do anyone any good. I'm not sure what translation you are using but I can't find anything anything about a "dome" in the NASB except for a passage in Amos 9:6 talking about the heavens.

However, I noticed that you failed to say whether you believe the Bible. So, I'm not sure what your intend is in posting all these Bible quotes if you don't even believe the Bible.

I'm quoting passages in context. Not out of context. You're the one misunderstanding the context of Genesis. Sorry to break the news to you.

And yes, I believe the Bible. Do you believe the Bible? It doesn't sound like you do if you have a problem with the Bible using the word "dome" to describe the raqia. And yes the NASB does use this translation in Amos 9:6. And this is because in its original context, the ancient isrealites authors and audience believed in the sky as a solid dome.

 

[HarleyER]

I'm quoting passages in context. Not out of context. You're the one misunderstanding the context of Genesis. Sorry to break the news to you.

And yes, I believe the Bible. Do you believe the Bible? It doesn't sound like you do if you have a problem with the Bible using the word "dome" to describe the raqia. And yes the NASB does use this translation in Amos 9:6. And this is because in its original context, the ancient isrealites authors and audience believed in the sky as a solid dome.

I'm sorry if I've offended. That was not my intent. I simply don't understand the emphasis on a solid dome.

 

[sfs]

I'm sorry but I find that evolution does not provide a highly successful model.

What your beliefs on the matter don't interest me. What interests me is your claim that scientists accept evolution on faith rather than based on evidence. To make that claim you have to have a broad, detailed knowledge of the evidence we're basing our acceptance of evolution on. Do you? Are you prepared to defend your accusation -- to demonstrate that you understand the evidence for evolution better than the scientists do? If so, have at it. If not, stop accusing people of things without evidence.

It has been changed and modified since Darwin first published his atheist's thoughts.

Of course it's been changed. Our understanding of the universe changes as we learn new things -- that's the way it's supposed to be. (By the way, Darwin wasn't an atheist -- he specifically refused to accept that label.)

I am sure all the arguments have been given on all sides. However, I find that it isn't sensible to consider that everything on this planet has been evolving over a period of time. Science has never been able to show a direct correlation through artifacts the various stages of evolution. Of all the animals and men who have died, there are no fossils-not one-that shows a change man. All we have are books written by evolutionary scientists with very nice pictures of what various stages of man would have looked like.

I certainly hope you have more substantial support for your accusation against scientists than this. Do you know anything at all about genetic evidence for evolution, for example, or biogeographic evidence?

Today Christians feel embarrassed for defending what the Biblical text plainly states. Scientific journals, and many Christian book publishers, will not allow arguments on Intelligent Design.

I've read the arguments for intelligent design by their proponents, who in fact have no difficulty getting their them published and selling lots of books in the process. Those arguments are quite bad.

What I’m confused about, is that if you find you cannot buy into creation,

I can't buy into creationism and specifically young earth creationism -- I have no problem with the doctrine of creation. I can't buy into it because of the massive physical evidence against it, and because the only argument for it is a gross misreading of a Genesis text ripped out of its ancient Near Eastern context. It seems to have been concocted by people who have the impression that every text should be read like a newspaper story.

 

[BeyondET]

I'm sorry if I've offended. That was not my intent. I simply don't understand the emphasis on a solid dome.

It's for another topic, the poster has a habit of doing that in threads that don't have anything to do with a solid dome.

 

[HarleyER]

What your beliefs on the matter don't interest me. What interests me is your claim that scientists accept evolution on faith rather than based on evidence. To make that claim you have to have a broad, detailed knowledge of the evidence we're basing our acceptance of evolution on. Do you? Are you prepared to defend your accusation -- to demonstrate that you understand the evidence for evolution better than the scientists do? If so, have at it. If not, stop accusing people of things without evidence.

Of course it's been changed. Our understanding of the universe changes as we learn new things -- that's the way it's supposed to be. (By the way, Darwin wasn't an atheist -- he specifically refused to accept that label.)

I certainly hope you have more substantial support for your accusation against scientists than this. Do you know anything at all about genetic evidence for evolution, for example, or biogeographic evidence?

I've read the arguments for intelligent design by their proponents, who in fact have no difficulty getting their them published and selling lots of books in the process. Those arguments are quite bad.

I can't buy into creationism and specifically young earth creationism -- I have no problem with the doctrine of creation. I can't buy into it because of the massive physical evidence against it, and because the only argument for it is a gross misreading of a Genesis text ripped out of its ancient Near Eastern context. It seems to have been concocted by people who have the impression that every text should be read like a newspaper story.

"What your beliefs on the matter don't interest me. "

Interesting comment since you started off this discussion stating "I don't think I've met an anti-evolutionary creationist on this forum who actually understands the position of evolutionary creation. " I understand completely.

"To make that claim you have to have a broad, detailed knowledge of the evidence we're basing our acceptance of evolution on. Do you?"

What evidence are you accepting evolution on? Genertic evidence is meaningless since DNA is similar in all creatures. Physical traits don't mean much either.

"I can't buy into it because of the massive physical evidence against it, and because the only argument for it is a gross misreading of a Genesis text ripped out of its ancient Near Eastern context. "

And that is the problem. This isn't a "gross misreading" of Genesis nor having the impression that every text in scripture should be read like a newspaper story. Below are the references just in the New Testament alone to the first 11 chapters of Genesis. These aren't scriptures simply ripped out of a newspaper. It is whether one believes the scriptures or secular scientists who have to manufacture a plausible alternative to what the scriptures teaches.

1. Matthew 19:4 Created male and female 1:27, 5:2
2. Matt. 19: 5-6 Cleave to his wife; become one flesh 2:24
3. Matt. 23:35 Righteous Abel 4:4
4. Matt. 24:37-39 Noah and the flood 6:1-22, 7:1-24, 8:1-22
5. Mark 10:6 Created male and female 1:27, 5:2
6. Mark 10:7-9 Cleave to his wife, become one flesh 2:4
7. Mark 13:19 Since the beginning of the creation which God created 1:1, 2:4
8. Luke 3:34-36 Genealogies: Abraham to Shem 11:10-26
9. Luke 3:36-38 Genealogies: Noah to Adam to God 5:3-29
10. Luke 11:51 Blood of Abel 4:8-11
11. Luke 17:27 The flood came and destroyed them all 7:10-23
12. John 1:1-3 In the beginning 1:1
13. John 8:44 Father of lies (Satan) 3:4-5
14. Acts 14:15 Who made the heaven and the earth 2:1
15. Acts 17:24 God made all things 1:1-31
16. Romans 1:20 The creation of the world 1:31, 2:4
17. Romans 4:17 God can create out of nothing 1:1-31
18. Romans 5:12 Death entered the world by sin 2:16-17, 3:19
19. Romans 5:14-19 Death reigned from Adam 2:17
20. Romans 8:20-22 Creation corrupted 3:17-18
21. 1 Corinthians 6:16 Two will become one flesh 2:24
22. 1 Cor. 11:3 Head of the woman 3:16
23. 1 Cor. 11:7 In the image of God 1:27, 5:1
24. 1 Cor. 11:18 Woman from man 2:22-23
25. 1 Cor. 11:9 Woman for the man 2:18
26. 1 Cor. 15:21-22 By a man came death 2:16-17, 3:19
27. 1 Cor. 15:38-39 To each … seeds of its own (kind) 1:11, 1:21, 1:24
28. 1 Cor. 15:45 Adam became a living being 2:7
29. 1 Cor. 15:47 Man from the earth 3:23
30. 2 Cor. 4:6 Light out of darkness 1:3-5
31. 2 Cor. 11:3 Serpent deceived Eve 3:1-6, 3:13
32. Ephesians 3:9 Created all things 1:1-31, 2:1-3
33. Ephesians 5:30-31 Cleave to his wife, become one flesh 2:4
34. Colossians 1:16 All things created by Him 1:1-31, 2:1-3
35. Colossians 3:10 Created in His image 1:27
36. 1 Timothy 2:13-14 Adam was created first 2:18-23
37. 1 Timothy 2:14 Woman was deceived 3:1-6, 3:13
38. 1 Timothy 4:4 Everything created by God is good 1:10-31
39. Hebrews 1:10 In the beginning God made heaven & earth 1:1
40. Heb. 2:7-8 All things in subjection under man 1:26-30, 9:2-3
41. Heb. 4:3 Works were finished 2:1
42. Heb. 4:4 Rest on the seventh day 2:2-3
43. Heb. 4:10 Rest from His works 2:2-3
44. Heb. 11:3 Creation of the universe 1:1
45. Heb. 11:4 Abel offered a better sacrifice 4:3-5
46. Heb. 11:5 Enoch taken up 5:21-24
47. Heb. 11:7 Noah’s household saved 7:1
48. Heb. 12:48 Blood of Abel 4:10
49. James 3:9 Men in the likeness of God 1:17, 5:1
50. 1 Peter 3:20 Construction of the Ark, eight saved 6:14-16, 7:13
51. 2 Peter 2:5 A flood upon the ungodly, eight saved 6:8-12, 7:1-24
52. 2 Pet. 3:4-5 Earth formed out of water and by water 1:6-7
53. 2 Pet. 3:6 The world destroyed by water 7:17-24
54. 1 John 3:8 Devil sinned from the beginning 3:14
55. 1 John 3:12 Cain slew his brother 4:8, 4:25
56. Jude 11 The way of Cain 4:8, 4:16, 4:25
57. Jude 14 Enoch, the seventh generation from Adam 5:3-24
58. Revelation 2:7 Tree of life 2:9
59. Rev. 3:14 Beginning of the Creation of God 1:1-31, 2:1-4
60. Rev. 4:11 Created all things 1:1-31, 2:1-3
61. Rev. 10:6 Who created heaven . . . and the earth 1:1, 2:1
62. Rev. 14:7 Who made the heaven and the earth 1:1, 2:1, 2:4
63. Rev. 20:2 The serpent of old, who is the devil 3:1, 3:14
64. Rev. 21:1 First heaven and first earth 2:1
65. Rev. 21:4 No more death, sorrow, crying or pain 3:17-19
66. Rev. 22:2 Fruit of the tree of life 3:22 67. Rev. 22:3 No more curse 3:14-19
68. Rev. 22:14 The tree of life 2:9