miricles today are lame

[kidsagainstkows]

in the Bible the miricles are way awesome, God parts rivers, floods the world, scatters people all over the world, ect. in the new testiment Jesus can turn water into wine (i would love that trick, except maybe with Coors), feed 5,000 people with two fish and 3 loafs of bread, do lasik eye surgery with his bare hands, and resurrect.

today i get stuff like this to be called miracles

Like a while ago, when we had to have our roof fixed, because of warped timbers. It was raining quite a bit, and the workers would arrive the next day, so I was worried about the weather. Rain would mess things up, as the timber would then warp again. So, I prayed, and asked God for sunny weather the next day. He assured me that it would be fine. That next morning, I woke up, and went outside. See, I couldn't resist the temptation to go outside and see what the weather looked like - instead of just taking His word for it. There was not even a trace of a cloud. The sky was so brilliantly clear that it made me think of heaven.

it was raining, then it stopped... ya that happens every time it rains, it eventually stops. or stuff like "my mom had pneumonia and then it got better", that happens all the time too. My question is, wheres the cool stuff like way back when? it would do alot to convince me that there is at least some supernatural force (i believe in nothing supernatural) in existence.

 

[Dragons87]

I understand your want for flash and bling (because sometimes I want it to!), but God isn't a pay-per-view, show-on-demand magician. He's not an entertainer, but a redeemer. And so, the true miracles that I see today are not in the physical world. Rather, they are the stories of how God has redeemed the lost, and turned those once thought as lost causes into great blessings for others.

I volunteer in a Christian rehab centre for people with gambling addictions, and listening to the experiences of people who were once addicts and now reformed because of Christ truly amazes me. Those are the miracles I see.

 

[freak_conformist]

I believe that miracles are in how you look at it. You can either see the miracle in the sunrise or you can spend another day saying "blah, another day." I personally think appreciating what I have make me a more positive person. I don't go around proclaiming miracles in every site I see, but I do believe God will occasionally remind me that He is always present.
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True that we don't see Lake Michigan splitting itself in half to let emancipated factory workers into Wisconsin. But, really, why would we need to? In today's society where the world is connected and we have machines to do almost everything for us, why do we need some big miracle? So God can prove that He's there? If God perfromed huge miracles all the time just to keep peoples attention, wouldn't it become rather pointless?
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In a parable that Jesus tells, a wealthy man who has found himself in hell begs God to send his dead servant to tell his family that they should change thier ways before it's too late. And God replyed, if your they did not believe when I freed Isreal from Egypt, why would they believe if I bring a dead man back to life? That is to say, if the miracles you have are not enough for you, why should God send you more?

 

[bpetruzzo]

It seems to me that the miracles today eclipse the miracles of the old testament and new testament ten-fold. Sure, no ones turning water into wine or calling fire down from heaven. Countless numbers of the spiritually condemned are being brought back to life by God's power in Jesus.

That's profoundly supernatural and absolutely out of any kind of real human control.

 

[nChrist]

Jesus Christ had a reason for all of the miracles, signs, and wonders during the time of His earthly ministry - to help men believe. For the same reason, he performed many miracles through His followers. Most of the awesome miracles you refer to were before the Cross and the completion of the Holy Bible. There were multitudes of witnesses, and we now have the completed Holy Bible to study any time we want to. God has done more than His part, the ultimate being going to the Cross in our place.

God still does as He pleases in Heaven and on earth, and He does answer prayer if it's within His Perfect Will. Mankind has had the completed Holy Bible now for about 2,000 years. In that time and before, there are countless millions of witnesses that God is real and worthy of our faith. Each man and woman is charged with the most important decision of their entire lives: to accept or reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. God has done more than His part. It's past time for man to do his part.

John 20:27-31 KJV Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.



Good News! -- The Holy Bible is the WORD OF GOD! -- God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit - The Creator Of All Things! -- "GOD'S GRACE" and "OUR WORKS" -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1623 to 1863 ) -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1961 to 2001 ) -- JESUS CHRIST - VERY GOD - LORD - SAVIOUR - MESSIAH - KING

 

[Ursie]

They see more 'blingy' types of miracles in third world countries. Talk to some missionaries to those places and they'll tell you the stuff that happens that can only be from God. I understand your frustration. I don't know exactly why we don't see more of it here. I do believe that God is still a God of 'BIG' miracles. Keep seeking Him, not His miracles. Jesus showed amazing miracles to the Pharisees and still they did not believe, be careful that you are not like them. I know it's so tempting to wish for miracles, bu there are reasons to be content with the miracles of changed lives, which eternally are what matters most.

 

[kidsagainstkows]

woah hijacked thread, anyways i guess ill just respond to the last poster. i would say even the ones in third world countries arnt as cool as stopping the sun (earth) and parting a sea. also i would guess taht you see them more there because the people are uneducated and fall into a God of the Gaps mentality. alot of missionaries (my aunt and uncle are missionaries so i know quite a few) say that teh miracles are seeing the peoples faces and seeing them come to God, which arnt miracles.

 

[Ursie]

woah hijacked thread, anyways i guess ill just respond to the last poster. i would say even the ones in third world countries arnt as cool as stopping the sun (earth) and parting a sea. also i would guess taht you see them more there because the people are uneducated and fall into a God of the Gaps mentality. alot of missionaries (my aunt and uncle are missionaries so i know quite a few) say that teh miracles are seeing the peoples faces and seeing them come to God, which arnt miracles.

The missionaries I know see healings, miraculous provision and things like that. No stopping the sun, but pretty impressive anyway.

 

[ebia]

woah hijacked thread, anyways i guess ill just respond to the last poster. i would say even the ones in third world countries arnt as cool as stopping the sun (earth) and parting a sea. also i would guess taht you see them more there because the people are uneducated and fall into a God of the Gaps mentality. alot of missionaries (my aunt and uncle are missionaries so i know quite a few) say that teh miracles are seeing the peoples faces and seeing them come to God, which arnt miracles.

The big 'miracles' in scripture are few and far between and happen at key moments. They are not events happen all the time to keep people impressed.

But you seem to be operating on an inappropriate definition of miracle. So far as the New Testament is concerned a miracle isn't "a supernatural event" but "a wonderous thing that points towards the Kingdom of God". If we understand what is going on then, Jesus sitting down to eat with Levi the tax collector is as much a miracle as his healing Bartemaus. The point of miracles is not to prove there is a "supernatural God out there", but to say "hey, this is what it looks like when God returns to rule: the blind see, the lame walk, the prisoners are set free, the excluded are included..."

At the height of Apartheit South-Africa everyone knew the system couldn't last but nobody well informed thought it could possibly end without a blood-bath. Yet one small, unimposing, quiet, little black Archbishop who spends 3 hours every day in prayer led his country on a path of reconcilliation nobody had dreamt possible. That's what the Kingdom of God looks like. That's a proper miracle.

 

[newbeliever02072005]

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[ephraimanesti]

My question is, wheres the cool stuff like way back when? it would do alot to convince me that there is at least some supernatural force (i believe in nothing supernatural) in existence.

i ONCE WAS LOST, AND NOW AM FOUND;
i WAS BLIND BUT NOW I SEE.

This is the biggest most blessed MIRACLE of which i can conceive!

ABBA'S BRAT,
ephraim

 

[kidsagainstkows]

bpetruzzo: not sure if your trying to say something about people converting, but just so you know, the church is dying slowly. in 1980, the number of christians in USA was around 85% and theists were around 95%. as of last year, christians were around 70-75% with theists being 84-86% of the population. and USA is the most religious 1st world nation there is.

The big 'miracles' in scripture are few and far between and happen at key moments. They are not events happen all the time to keep people impressed.

Jesus only did real miracles for 6 mo to 3 years and he did at least 7 big ones (according to John), that seems like a very short amount of time to me for miracles. everytime the bible describes something as a miracle there is in fact a supernatural occurrence going on.

we use the term miracle loosely now. for instance, when the pilot landed his plane on the Hudson and no body died everyone (media wise) proclamed it a miracle, but it wasnt really. that was a pilot with 30 years experience doing what he was trained to and he was a hero, but not the subject of a miracle.

if you dont like the term miracle i guess i can substitute Supernatural occurrence due to the direct intervention of God, but that doesnt have the same ring to it. God had no problem showing people in the new and old testament that he existed and he can prove it, just watch him split this 200 mile long sea in half, just watch him drop a nuclear bomb on two towns who had become corrupt, just watch him topple a city so the warriors can murder and rape everyone. today we dont get that, and i dont think that there is a defense to that saying that we can. which leads me to...

i ONCE WAS LOST, AND NOW AM FOUND;
i WAS BLIND BUT NOW I SEE.

This is the biggest most blessed MIRACLE of which i can conceive!

the fact that a pretty much bad guy can write some moving lyrics does not make a miracle. also, i am legally blind with out glasses or contacts, if tommorow when i wake up i find that i cannot see until i take my contacts out, i will be the first one proclaiming miracle (peoples vision doesnt randomly get better like it randomly gets worse). and presumably if i pray for my vision to be 20/15 tommorow it will be becuase literally whatever i ask for should be granted (my buddy wants his leg back that he lost in the war and that hasnt happened yet).

 

[Dragons87]

We must understand that miracles in themselves is not an end--they are a means to an end, and only one of many means to reach the same end.

So what is the purpose of miracles? As God sent Moses into Egypt to petition the Pharoah, He said:

"Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the Lord." -- Exodus 10:1-2

The purpose God chose to use miracles is so that we may know that He is the Lord. Miracles also demonstrate the awesome power and sovereignty of the Lord:

"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know." -- Acts 2:22

Unfortunately, miracles, while "wowing" people for a bit, and perhaps draw people to talk about the Lord for a while, are not the best tool to make people's hearts turn to the Lord. God again makes it clear:

"How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them?" -- Numbers 14:11

Apart from that, even the evil spiritual forces of this world can also perform miracles, and is therefore not a good way of convincing people to follow the truth instead of the lies:

"The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders," 2 Thessalonians 2:9

And Jesus Himself, despite performing many crowd-wowing miracles, didn't put His focus on them.

"Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, 'Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you.'
He answered, 'A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.'" -- Matthew 12:38-39

"Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men." -- John 2:23-24

"After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world." Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself." -- John 6:14-15

The focus of salvation has nothing to do with miracles--they are but a sideshow. This was made clear by the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus.

"Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, 'Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.'
In reply Jesus declared, 'I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.'" -- John 3:1-3

Nicodemus came to see Jesus because he recognised that the miracles Jesus was performing were from God. Yet Jesus tells him that a person cannot attain salvation unless they are born again. The focus is immediately shifted away from miracles on to salvation.

Paul also states clearly what Christian salvation is all about:

"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." -- 1 Corinthians 1:22-24

While even I have seen physical miracles being performed successfully, I am quick to stress that the greatest miracle of all is the changing of sinners' hearts towards God. And may all glory be upon Him.

 

[ebia]

Jesus only did real miracles for 6 mo to 3 years and he did at least 7 big ones (according to John), that seems like a very short amount of time to me for miracles.

But the whole point of that time and place - the immediacy of Jesus - is that it was exceptional.

everytime the bible describes something as a miracle there is in fact a supernatural occurrence going on.

The bible generally doesn't describe things as miracles - that's us bringing our categories to events the bible describes. The bible doesn't set out to describe them as 'supernatural' because that is a modern concept. The bible sets out to describe them as 'wonderous things' - amazing events that point to the Kingdom of God. So they are extraordinary, but to apply a concept like 'supernatural' or 'something science cannot explain' is to bring an anachronistic classification that would be completely alien to the biblical world. The biblical world sees God working in a period of plenty followed by a period of famine, or vice versa; in King Cyrus being used to bring judgement, in Joseph being at the right time and right place with the right skills to protect the rest of Jacob's family....

If you pick up "miracle in the bible is a supernatural act" it's because that's what you selected for in the first place without noticing when you chose the events you would look at.

we use the term miracle loosely now. for instance, when the pilot landed his plane on the Hudson and no body died everyone (media wise) proclamed it a miracle, but it wasnt really. that was a pilot with 30 years experience doing what he was trained to and he was a hero, but not the subject of a miracle.

I'm suggesting the problem is that defining miracle as 'a supernatural event' is not how most people actually still want to use it.

if you dont like the term miracle i guess i can substitute Supernatural occurrence due to the direct intervention of God, but that doesnt have the same ring to it.

If you need 'supernatural' or any equivalent term you still aren't thinking in biblical ways. If one wants to understand the relationship between miracles described in different parts of scripture and now one needs to think of miracles in the way the bible thinks of them, not try to classify them in mechanical terms that misses the whole point.

God had no problem showing people in the new and old testament that he existed and he can prove it, just watch him split this 200 mile long sea in half, just watch him drop a nuclear bomb on two towns who had become corrupt, just watch him topple a city so the warriors can murder and rape everyone.

You portray each of those events as about God proving that he exists, yet the texts of each are quite clear that that was not the point about any of them. It also presupposes that the events did actualy happen, and that they happened in a 'supernatural' way.

today we dont get that,

We aren't living in the same part of the story, but we also don't see our events through the right lenses. They saw the events of their world through the lens of God acting in and through his people and wrote their stories up in a way that makes that explicit. They didn't sit there worrying about whether science could explain the event. If we wrote up our stories in the same sort of way - the story of Desmond Tutu and the Truth and Reconcilliation Commision, or the story of the Dunkirk evacations, say, and told them as a biblical author would one would get something that looked pretty dramatic and made clear God's involvement.

On the other hand if you spend your time searching for something with the wrong sort of lens you'll have great difficulty seeing it.

Miracles are not magic tricks. They are God's future Kingdom breaking into the present. Trying to assess them by whether science can explain them is like trying to decide whether that lump of metal is a car based on its colour.

 

[fire flies]

To bring this off track I believe there are biblical level miracles in the world going down right now, my favorite example was one that happened to a friend of the family. Although It's been a while sinsce I've heard the story as i remeber :

He is a gentleman heavily evolved with trans world radio, He was broad casting in a i believe in south America. The local war lord government was becoming frustrated with the white radio station because the converts no longer feared death and no longer feared the pagan gods. so they decided to go into the radio station and kill the operator and destroy the station and hope the christian influence would die out.

the night the assault was to be made a christian insider found a way to warn this guy over a cb radio type deal. however by the time the massage got through the troops were already coming through the clearing around the station. He could hear the brush being moved in the night. He interrupted the standard program and began to ask everyone who could hear to pray for him and the station. he pulled the mic under the counter and began praying over the air himself. The troops advanced so close to the station he could hear them whispering to each other.

He continued to pray assuming that he was about to be martyred he began explaining the gospel one last time. minutes past the whispering had ceased. he eventually worked up the courage to stand and look out the tiny window. he saw nothing but trials through the grass. He spent the rest of that night praising God

The next day he satin a restaurant and a large man clearly of the warlord's army sat at his table with tears in his eyes he apologizes explaining that he was one of the men who was going to kill him. He also explains that he is now a christian after hearing the gospel from him. So he asks the man why they didn't come and kill him.

the man looks at him with puzzle and tells him how the warlord couldn't have killed him he was to well protected. puzzles the friend asks what he means. the soldier describes the most fearsome force guarding him. he said they were the most dangerous men he had ever seen.

God promises to surround us with the hedge of his protection, that he will be out rear guard

God literally provided a small army to protect one man and a radio station that seems pretty biblical to me

 

[Ursie]

That is soooooo awesome. Thank you for sharing it.

 

[stelow]

I do believe the miracles in the bible took place and were genuine miracles of God. Today it depends on your definition of miracle and your view or interpretation of the Word of God.

Some would say 1Corinthians 13:9-10, refers to the Second Coming of Christ Jesus, others would say it refers to the completion of revelation.


1 Corinthians 13:9-10
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


James 1:23-25
23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[seashale76]

It has been my observation that all miracles are far from lame, and there are many folks out there who are forever attempting to discount the 'non-lame' ones because to admit they might be true miracles would be to admit some uncomfortable truths.

I see a miracle at every Divine Liturgy.
The Holy Light is a miracle that happens every year in Jerusalem.
The snakes of the Theotokos in Kefallonia also occurs every year.