Miraculous gifts exist for edification

[hawk]

This is from the NIV.  Spiritual gifts are underlined and the purpose they serve is in bold and/or colored . 

I Corinthians 12:
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit  is given for the common good.

I Corinthians 14:
3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort . 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church . 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues , but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues , unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified .

12Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church .

26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation.  All of these must be done for the  strengthening of the church.

Ephesians 4:
11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers , 12 to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

I Peter 4:
10Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve   others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms.

Romans 1:
11I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong -- 12that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith.

Acts 15(NASB):
32Judas and Silas, also being prophets themselves, encouraged and strengthened the brethren with a lengthy message.

(The participle in Acts 15:32 is causational, i. e., denoting cause.  Thus Judas' and Silas' identity as prophets was the cause of the encouragement and strength that the brethren received.)

Or, if you prefer, just look through the New Testament, primarily Acts, and see miraculous gifts, as well as dreams, visions, healings, resurrections, signs and wonders, and other such phenomena in action.  Note the following occurrence in Acts, all of which seem to be primarily concerned with the growth, edification, security of the church.

1) Joseph’s supernatural warnings concerning Herod’s plots (Matthew 2:12, 13, 19, 22)
2) Peter’s supernatural knowledge of the dishonesty of Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5:3-4)
3) Philip’s angelic commission and subsequent supernatural transportation (Acts 8:26-40)
4) Paul’s apostolic call (Acts 9:3-8)
5) Ananias’ vision and healing of Paul (Acts 9:10-19)
6) Cornelius’ vision to call Peter (Acts 10:1-8)
7) Peter’s trance concerning the induction of the gentiles into the body of believers (Acts 10:9-23)
8) Agabus’ prediction of a famine (Acts 11:27-30)
9) Paul’s vision of a man from Macedonia needing his help (Acts 16:9-10)
10) Paul’s vision of encouragement while in Corinth (Acts 18:9-11)
11) Agabus’ prophecy concerning Paul’s imprisonment in Jerusalem (Acts 21:10-11)

More and more could be added to the list.  I have not even gotten to the prophecies of praise to God at the beginning of Luke, much less similar phenomenon throughout the Old Testament.  The point is, supernatural phenomena such as miraculous gifts, dreams, visions, healings, signs and wonders, etc. exist to edify, strengthen, and protect the body of Christ.  They are an important component of the spread of the gospel. 

In Scripture, we are commanded to “earnestly desire” the gift of prophecy so that we may edify others (I Corinthians (12:31, 14:1, 14:39).  It is also a Scriptural command to not treat prophecy with contempt (I Thessalonians 5:20).  Likewise, it is a command of Scripture to not forbid the speaking in tongues (I Corinthians 14:39).

Do we evangelicals today live like this?  Or have we lost this supernatural, yet important, aspect of New Testament Christianity, amid the secular pull of rationalism and skepticism?

What are ya’lls’ thoughts?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The baby is out with the bath water.

 

[Andrew]

Do we evangelicals today live like this?Ê Or have we lost this supernatural, yet important, aspect of New Testament Christianity, amid the secular pull of rationalism and skepticism?

I'm optimistic. We are coming full circle out of the dark ages and into a glory that will surpass that of the early church. Christ is coming back for a glorious church, not a defeated one that is not adorned with gifts.

IOW, no we are not there yet (still a lot of resistance here and there) but we're getting there, Praise God!

 

[rapturefish]

In a generation that has pushed aside science as a panacea for the questions of life, truth is not as important as what works. And that means mere biblical apolegetics and logic will not satisfy people's search for answers. They want to see something that works, not theory that makes sense. While that may be a concern on one hand, on the other we see that this is just the right place for the supernatural to take its place once again.

When Jesus preached the kingdom he did not merely tell stories and use scripture, he accompanied the message with signs and wonders. People could see the kingdom in action! And that is what people are after once again.

Granted, we're in the midst of a paradigm shift when it comes to the relevance of the supernatural today and spiritual gifts. But it's happening! And that's great news.

 

[thetruthseeker]

Originally posted by hawk
This is from the NIV.  Spiritual gifts are underlined and the purpose they serve is in bold and/or colored . 

I Corinthians 12:
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit  is given for the common good.

I Corinthians 14:
3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort . 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church . 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues , but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues , unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified .

12Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church .

26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation.  All of these must be done for the  strengthening of the church.

Ephesians 4:
11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers , 12 to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

I Peter 4:
10Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve   others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms.

Romans 1:
11I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong -- 12that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith.

Acts 15(NASB):
32Judas and Silas, also being prophets themselves, encouraged and strengthened the brethren with a lengthy message.

(The participle in Acts 15:32 is causational, i. e., denoting cause.  Thus Judas' and Silas' identity as prophets was the cause of the encouragement and strength that the brethren received.)

Or, if you prefer, just look through the New Testament, primarily Acts, and see miraculous gifts, as well as dreams, visions, healings, resurrections, signs and wonders, and other such phenomena in action.  Note the following occurrence in Acts, all of which seem to be primarily concerned with the growth, edification, security of the church.

1) Josephs supernatural warnings concerning Herods plots (Matthew 2:12, 13, 19, 22)
2) Peters supernatural knowledge of the dishonesty of Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5:3-4)
3) Philips angelic commission and subsequent supernatural transportation (Acts 8:26-40)
4) Pauls apostolic call (Acts 9:3-8)
5) Ananias vision and healing of Paul (Acts 9:10-19)
6) Cornelius vision to call Peter (Acts 10:1-8)
7) Peters trance concerning the induction of the gentiles into the body of believers (Acts 10:9-23)
8) Agabus prediction of a famine (Acts 11:27-30)
9) Pauls vision of a man from Macedonia needing his help (Acts 16:9-10)
10) Pauls vision of encouragement while in Corinth (Acts 18:9-11)
11) Agabus prophecy concerning Pauls imprisonment in Jerusalem (Acts 21:10-11)

More and more could be added to the list.  I have not even gotten to the prophecies of praise to God at the beginning of Luke, much less similar phenomenon throughout the Old Testament.  The point is, supernatural phenomena such as miraculous gifts, dreams, visions, healings, signs and wonders, etc. exist to edify, strengthen, and protect the body of Christ.  They are an important component of the spread of the gospel. 

In Scripture, we are commanded to earnestly desire the gift of prophecy so that we may edify others (I Corinthians (12:31, 14:1, 14:39).  It is also a Scriptural command to not treat prophecy with contempt (I Thessalonians 5:20).  Likewise, it is a command of Scripture to not forbid the speaking in tongues (I Corinthians 14:39).

Do we evangelicals today live like this?  Or have we lost this supernatural, yet important, aspect of New Testament Christianity, amid the secular pull of rationalism and skepticism?

What are yalls thoughts?

Hi Hawk,

I believe that all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are great. However, we rarely stress two of the most important gifts of the Spirit:

1) THE MIRACULOUS TRANSFORMATION OF OUR CHARACTER

2) THE MIRACULOUS DESIRE AND POWER TO BE OBEDIENT TO THE WILL OF GOD.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Psalms 51:10,11 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It means more to have a transformed character and to be obedient to Jesus than to be tremendously knowledgable about the Bible or to be a miracle worker. It is our transformation and obedience (the gifts of the Holy Spirit) to the will of God through the grace of God that saves.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

 

[hawk]

thank all for their thoughts.  I agree with what you wrote, truthseeker, and praise God that the greatest miracle of all is salvation.


Is there anyone here who is a cessationist?  Who doesn't believe that miraculous gifts are for today?

Just curious.

 

[Andrew]

Well I think there were one or two becos i used to discuss this with them. but they dont seem to post around here anymore, or perhaps they stick to other threads.

Some others believe they exist still but are quick to point out that what you commonly see among the charismatics today are fakes. ie more rare than it is common.

 

[RevKidd]

I'm optimistic. We are coming full circle out of the dark ages and into a glory that will surpass that of the early church. Christ is coming back for a glorious church, not a defeated one that is not adorned with gifts.

Nice thought...

 

[hawk]

bump

 

[Andrew]

I believe that all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are great. However, we rarely stress two of the most important gifts of the Spirit:

1) THE MIRACULOUS TRANSFORMATION OF OUR CHARACTER

2) THE MIRACULOUS DESIRE AND POWER TO BE OBEDIENT TO THE WILL OF GOD.

These are not gifts of the Holy Spirit but the working of the Holy Spirit within each believer to conform him to the image of Christ. If these were gifts, then everyone wld be miraculously transformed and obedient in an instant, which is not the case.

I believe Hawk is talking abt the 9 supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit listed in Corinthians:

1. gift of healings 2. gift of faith 3. gift of working of miracles
4. Word of wisdom 5. Word of knowledge 6. Discerning of spirits
7. speaking in tongues 8. Interpretation of tongues 9. Prophecy

 

[hawk]

good thought, Andrew thats correct.  Of course transformation and a desire for obediance are important but they not, strictly speaking, spiritual gifts.

 

[4sightsounds]

Is is POSSIBLE that God would utilize certain powers or spiritual gifts for a period of time designated by him alone, as he sees fit, for his purpose?

 

Would anyone be willing to list some miracles/manifestations/ocurrences that took place in the NT that clearly don't take place today?

 

My 2nd post....great to be here...

God bless all of you.... love the smilies.....

 

 

[Andrew]

Is is POSSIBLE that God would utilize certain powers or spiritual gifts for a period of time designated by him alone,Êas he sees fit, for his purpose?

that designated period of time wld be the church age since He gave gifts to the church, and the church is still around.

Would anyone be willing to list some miracles/manifestations/ocurrences that took place in the NT that clearly don't take place today?

err cant think of any. even walking on water and multiplication of food has been accomplished. as Jesus said, greater works than these will you do in my name.

welcome! 4sightsounds. do stick around.

 

[4sightsounds]

the question was "is it possible?" Your response tells me that you have presupposed that it is not possible. That's cool. I trust that you've answered the question honestly...

anyone else want to take an honest stab at my question?

Greater works than these......yes, I agree....

As we look at John 14, what is the general context of that chapter? Are the disciples reflecting on the miracles that Jesus performed? Are they troubled over his inevitable physical departure? What was the work that these 12 were assigned to perform?

Nothing against you, Andrew.... but I long for the day that we will embrace the agenda of God and stop focusing on things that were designed for those who were in need of a sign. If we desire to do greater things, we have to accurately define what they are.

One more thing regarding the church age: An analogy sorta...

When a skyscraper is built, sometimes you have to bring in tools specifically designed for the job; cranes, cement trucks, etc... after the job is complete, those employed perform a different type of work, and the tools used to establish the structure and foundation are taken away..


God bless you, and thanks for responding and welcoming me
4~

 

[T-roi]

Hey guys, mind if I jump in? I just found your thread.

I would also like to agree with thetruthseeker...

 

I believe that all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are great. However, we rarely stress two of the most important gifts of the Spirit:

1) THE MIRACULOUS TRANSFORMATION OF OUR CHARACTER

2) THE MIRACULOUS DESIRE AND POWER TO BE OBEDIENT TO THE WILL OF GOD.
 

ok, so they are not technically what you call "gifts". I would call them <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">prerequisites for obtaining the gifts. I do not believe that God passes out gifts like candy. They are not to be trifled with. Simon the Sorcerer learned that in Acts 8:20. I think one reason we are not seeing "true" gifts being demonstrated in the church today is because we are not pursuing sanctification and a holy lifestyle nor are we actively pursuing to do the work God has laid before us.</SPAN>

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">I&nbsp;just feel that we are&nbsp;talking about steps farther down the road, yet are&nbsp;stuck on step one or two.&nbsp;The "miraculous transformation of our character and desire/power to be obedient".&nbsp;Those are the first steps and we are still struggling with them. This is an old statistic but I bet little has changed. In 1999 the average amount of tithes and offerings given&nbsp;to the church (per family) was 2%. The average was higher during the depression !!! Less than 1% of church income ever reaches the foreign mission field. I do not have a number, but would anyone doubt that the amount spent on "building beautification" or "the new building project" woud be higher? A friend of mine confided to me a few years ago that his church, while under a particular pastor, spent more in a year on office supplies than they did on out reach ministries and missions. No wonder we don't see God moving. The gifts are not simply to make us feel good. They are to equip us to complete the work God has given us. With statistics like these why do we need gifts. We aren't even working.</SPAN>

OK, i quit. I know it's easier to pick on the church than it is to face the problems and make a difference. Just wanted to see what you all think?

'til He comes</SPAN>

 

[T-roi]

whoa, sorry about the mess! I have no idea what all that is about but I promise&nbsp; there is a thought in there somewhere.

 

[thetruthseeker]

Originally posted by T-roi
Hey guys, mind if I jump in? I just found your thread.

I would also like to agree with thetruthseeker...

&nbsp;

ok, so they are not technically what you call "gifts". I would call them <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">prerequisites for obtaining the gifts. I do not believe that God passes out gifts like candy. They are not to be trifled with. Simon the Sorcerer learned that in Acts 8:20. I think one reason we are not seeing "true" gifts being demonstrated in the church today is because we are not pursuing sanctification and a holy lifestyle nor are we actively pursuing to do the work God has laid before us.</SPAN>

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">I&nbsp;just feel that we are&nbsp;talking about steps farther down the road, yet are&nbsp;stuck on step one or two.&nbsp;The "miraculous transformation of our character and desire/power to be obedient".&nbsp;Those are the first steps and we are still struggling with them. This is an old statistic but I bet little has changed. In 1999 the average amount of tithes and offerings given&nbsp;to the church (per family) was 2%. The average was higher during the depression !!! Less than 1% of church income ever reaches the foreign mission field. I do not have a number, but would anyone doubt that the amount spent on "building beautification" or "the new building project" woud be higher? A friend of mine confided to me a few years ago that his church, while under a particular pastor, spent more in a year on office supplies than they did on out reach ministries and missions. No wonder we don't see God moving. The gifts are not simply to make us feel good. They are to equip us to complete the work God has given us. With statistics like these why do we need gifts. We aren't even working.</SPAN>

OK, i quit. I know it's easier to pick on the church than it is to face the problems and make a difference. Just wanted to see what you all think?

'til He comes</SPAN>

Hi T-roi,

You have made some very valid points. However, I would have to say that

1) THE MIRACULOUS TRANSFORMATION OF OUR CHARACTER

2) THE MIRACULOUS DESIRE AND POWER TO BE OBEDIENT TO THE WILL OF GOD.

are gifts because salvation is a gift. Remember, we are saved through the gifts of "justification" and "sanctification." The gift of "sanctification" relates to the quote.

Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker

 

[rapturefish]

truthseeker said:
"I believe that all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are great. However, we rarely stress two of the most important gifts of the Spirit:

1) THE MIRACULOUS TRANSFORMATION OF OUR CHARACTER

2) THE MIRACULOUS DESIRE AND POWER TO BE OBEDIENT TO THE WILL OF GOD."

T-roi said:
ok, so they are not technically what you call "gifts". I would call them prerequisites for obtaining the gifts. I do not believe that God passes out gifts like candy. They are not to be trifled with. Simon the Sorcerer learned that in Acts 8:20. I think one reason we are not seeing "true" gifts being demonstrated in the church today is because we are not pursuing sanctification and a holy lifestyle nor are we actively pursuing to do the work God has laid before us.

I_just feel that we are_talking about steps farther down the road, yet are_stuck on step one or two._The "miraculous transformation of our character and desire/power to be obedient"._Those are the first steps and we are still struggling with them. This is an old statistic but I bet little has changed. In 1999 the average amount of tithes and offerings given_to the church (per family) was 2%. The average was higher during the depression !!! Less than 1% of church income ever reaches the foreign mission field. I do not have a number, but would anyone doubt that the amount spent on "building beautification" or "the new building project" woud be higher? A friend of mine confided to me a few years ago that his church, while under a particular pastor, spent more in a year on office supplies than they did on out reach ministries and missions. No wonder we don't see God moving. The gifts are not simply to make us feel good. They are to equip us to complete the work God has given us. With statistics like these why do we need gifts. We aren't even working.

OK, i quit. I know it's easier to pick on the church than it is to face the problems and make a difference. Just wanted to see what you all think?

Hi T-roi,

The work of grace in salvation is the most important step in our life with God, and it is a miracle of the highest order! But it's also just the beginning. Practically I would not call it a gift though in the same definition as the spiritual gifts mentioned in the bible because the gifts there are for the edification of the church. I guess if you take the definition broadly turthseeker may have a case, but practically speaking it's better not to for the sake of discussion.

Spiritual gifts are not a power to be bought, yes (after all, gifts are not called gifts if they could be achieved or earnt)... but at the same time in Luke 11 Jesus says that it is God's delight to give spiritual gifts to his children. Paul says we are to eagerly desire spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 14. Often we do not give enough of a place to spiritual gifts and so when we do some do say that we are putting too much! Let's not be afraid of focusing on the gifts where we have not done so enough.

I disagree that it is a process of steps. People who exercise spiritual gifts are not perfect, not more spiritual, not better or more mature than other christians, they are simply christians who have been given another way in which to give glory to God and edify the church body.

If people are failing to live the sanctified life it is because they do not give God enough room to work in their hearts and believe that the Spirit can accomplish great things when hearts are yielded to Him. But there is no "I'm not sanctified enough yet so i can't receive spiritual gifts" in the bible. Indeed, the Corinthian church were guilty of great immoral behaviour (read 1 Corinthians the whole way and see just what issues Paul addresses) yet they had great gifts, and Paul never forbade them from using them, rather he encouraged them to desire them.

The most important thing is to lay down our ways and yield everything in our hearts to God so that He is invited to come and in transform us by the Holy Spirit. There is no achieving levels before gifts or anything; there is only letting the Spirit into more and more of your life. And when you admit your inability to deal with your failings, when you confess them and repent, when you invite God to change you... then he does. God wants broken and contrite hearts, that's all. And with such hearts he can do great things.

And the spiritual gifts tend to follow when we allow for that to happen. God delights to give them, and if we ask for them then he will answer. I know there is a fear of worshipping the gifts and not the giver, and in rightly doing so let's not shun gifts altogether. The whole point of gifts is so that we are enabled to glorify God - it is the enablement to do what we as christians are meant to do in supernatural ways. And wouldn't we want gifts in light of that? YES INDEED!

 

[4sightsounds]

"Spiritual gifts are not a power to be bought, yes (after all, gifts are not called gifts if they could be achieved or earnt)... but at the same time in Luke 11 Jesus says that it is God's delight to give spiritual gifts to his children. Paul says we are to eagerly desire spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 14. Often we do not give enough of a place to spiritual gifts and so when we do some do say that we are putting too much! Let's not be afraid of focusing on the gifts where we have not done so enough."

I agree with this statement. I'll even go as far as to say that our local assemblies really don't address this issue enough. But remember, the letter Paul wrote was to the body at large, not individuals. This makes a big difference in our posture towards spiritual gifts. God knows what the body needs. We don't! When we seek out spiritual gifts, we should hope for a BALANCED BODY, not a personal endowment.

I also agree that there are no 'steps' to receiving spiritual gifts. When we are born again, the Holy Spirit comes with gifts in hand.

 

[Andrew]

Nothing against you, Andrew.... but I long for the day that we will embrace the agenda of God and stop focusing on things that were designed for those who were in need of a sign.

sorry took so long to reply, i usu post in other section.

no offence taken but why do you say the gifts are for those who need a sign?? The Bible says the gifts are for edifying or building up the church.

eg if someone were dying of cancer, you'd want the gifts of healings.

if someone was depressed, the gift of prophesying unto comfort, exhortation and edification.

if someone were 'demond possessed' and you are not sure, then the gift of discerning of spirits. etc etc.

Such problems still exist in the church today so the church still needs these gifts to be a properly functioning church so certainly the gifts still exist today. Of cse, if a particular church does not believe in the gifts and rejects them as demonic or something, then the Holy Spirit is certainly not going to force his gifts on them.