Miracles

[TheManeki]

I have to get up around 5 am to beat traffic on the way to work, and as a consequence catch parts of infomercials: Gadgetry, Colon Cleanses, How to Make A Bajillion Bucks, have abs/buns/whatever of steel, and so on. A couple that have been pretty popular of late are Peter Popoff offering holy water and miracle manna. Supposedly this stuff will miraculously fix all your problems, and in return Popoff would appreciate some money as a token of your appreciation.

Popoff's a charlatan, but it generated a lot of questions on the subject of miracles, and I'd love to hear your thoughts. What's considered a miracle, and is it the same as it was a long time ago? Is a miracle, for example, the impossible made possible, or does it also include the very improbable made possible? (And how do we tell if something is truly impossible or just extremely unlikely?) Finally, have you ever experienced a miracle?

I have no answers to any of the above, except the last question, and the answer to that is a Definite Maybe. A decade ago, one of my relatives suffered a heart attack at the young age of 34. Initially, the doctors thought he would probably die, but instead he made a full recovery. But again, there's the question of if this was impossible, or just improbable.

 

[Im_A]

I have to get up around 5 am to beat traffic on the way to work, and as a consequence catch parts of infomercials: Gadgetry, Colon Cleanses, How to Make A Bajillion Bucks, have abs/buns/whatever of steel, and so on. A couple that have been pretty popular of late are Peter Popoff offering holy water and miracle manna. Supposedly this stuff will miraculously fix all your problems, and in return Popoff would appreciate some money as a token of your appreciation.

Popoff's a charlatan, but it generated a lot of questions on the subject of miracles, and I'd love to hear your thoughts. What's considered a miracle, and is it the same as it was a long time ago? Is a miracle, for example, the impossible made possible, or does it also include the very improbable made possible? (And how do we tell if something is truly impossible or just extremely unlikely?) Finally, have you ever experienced a miracle?

I have no answers to any of the above, except the last question, and the answer to that is a Definite Maybe. A decade ago, one of my relatives suffered a heart attack at the young age of 34. Initially, the doctors thought he would probably die, but instead he made a full recovery. But again, there's the question of if this was impossible, or just improbable.

i don't believe in the charlatans like Popoff's miracle cure stuff. his track record isn't good, and seems like he is trying his old tricks again.

as far as miracles, i've always seemed to think miralces are things said to be done by interrupting the laws of nature and that require something "super"natural to create.

casual meanings in terms of surviving medical illnesses, or a natural disaster, i would have to know the probability of something before i would ever consider something a miralce. like consider the probability of the event happening, and then also consider the probability of it not happening naturally, and if it would require something outside of this world to happen. this is why i say i don't believe in miracles, because i haven't come across anything that would be probable ONLY if something outside of this world would cause it.

 

[AzA]

I reject the popular definitions of miracle ("interrupting the laws of nature"; "God intervening") and the popular theology of miracles ("God will do X if you pay Y -- quid pro quo"; "you will receive A if you squeeze your belief sphincter hard enough in this direction.")

The popular notions have always seemed to have an absent, ignorant, or inactive God as their baseline: God isn't in the hospital room so we need to invoke His presence; God isn't aware of the situation so we need to lay it out specifically and call the patient and doctors by name; God isn't already at work and so we need to ask Him to show up and clock in.
I don't hold those assumptions.

I do assume that "nothing" is impossible with God because in God are all possibilities. If it is not possible not even God can whip it out. If it is possible it may happen, and if it has happened, it was always possible.

For something to move from possible to actual requires an intersection of right materials, right environment, right actors, right measure, and right time. Commercial air travel has always been possible but the factors necessary for building out that possibility on this scale only recently intersected. The laws of nature didn't change. We simply found new ways of working with them given our deepening understanding of them and the path our societies are on.

That is to say, our experience of God is more about our receptivity to the everlasting broadcast than it is about His presence or commitment. I like to say nature is more aware of our limitations than we are aware of its: in many ways we're the new kids out playing on the swings, and nature is the wise old guy sitting on the park bench, just getting some fresh air and watching the people pass by.

I have experienced what some would describe as a "miracle" or a "supernatural intervention." I don't describe it as such because of what those terms imply, but that doesn't mean I don't perceive God's action. I just perceive that He acts at all times.

 

[Adammi]

I think that the natural order of the universe is miraculous enough.

H2O is absolutely fascinating without a ridiculous infomercial. Who decided that it needs to be blessed to be any more holy?