• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Miracles in the Qur'an

AveRegina

Newbie
Jun 30, 2010
128
2
✟15,468.00
Faith
Other Religion
Hi ApplePie7!

I am considering the hypothesis that Quran 33:40 refers to Jesus Christ himself. This is how it could be translated:

"The Praised One is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of God, and (the) Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things." Q 33:40

Ma kana muhammadun aba ahadin min rijalikum walakin rasoola Allahi wa khatama alnnabiyyeena wakana Allahu bikulli shay-in AAaleeman


Compare with:

"Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed HIS SEAL OF APPROVAL." John 6:27

The following paragraph does not use the term "seal" but is does imply an idea of a final sort of revelation by using "last days":

Hebrews 1:1 "After God spoke long ago in various portions and in various ways to our ancestors through the prophets, 1:2 in these last days he has spoken to us in a son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he created the world."

According to Christian beliefs, Jesus Christ did not have any descendants or even married.

I wonder whether Q 33:40 is actually a Christian polemic statement against claims of revelation that were made in those times. Maybe there was a claim was made by someone who claimed to be a son of Jesus?

Are you aware of anyone else that proposed this? What do you yourself think about this?

Thanks
 
Upvote 0

ApplePie7

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2007
2,500
79
✟3,030.00
Faith
Christian

Very good work, brother!

The verse in John is actually how I first made the connection years ago after discovering that the Koranic 'Muhammad' was merely an epithet (one among legions of others) pertaining to the Biblical Jesus Christ.

There appears to be numerous 'polemic' statements in the Koran...a constant 'correcting' as it were as to proper Christian doctrine. The early Arab Christians who penned the Koran must have felt the need to write this material down due to obvious conflict of ideas floating around the area...such as incorrect ideas of the Trinity, etc...

As far as a 'son' of Jesus...that part would be new to me...
 
Upvote 0

AveRegina

Newbie
Jun 30, 2010
128
2
✟15,468.00
Faith
Other Religion
Hi ApplePie7!

It seems that we agree. Cool!

Regarding the "not the father of any of your men", I am just wondering about the "sitz im leben" of Q 33:40. What is, the reason that such a statement would have been said/written?

What kind of mistaken belief is it trying to correct? What does being a seal of prophets have to do with not being a father?

I think that it is trying to place the "Praised One" in a different category from all other human beings. That is why I think that it is related to Hebrews chapter 1.

Whether there was a group of people that claimed to be Sons of Christ instead of Sons of God I do not know. However, thinking about it some more. It seems that the Qur'an reflects a lot of Jewish-Christian polemic in an environment where both religions are relatively new and not well understood. I think that at least one stratum of the Qur'an was written by Syriac Christian missionaries that had to fight Jewish missionaries and at the same time correct mistaken beliefs (See 4:157-158).

We could imagine some Jewish missionaries who are claiming that they are the true "sons of God". That is actually correct according to the Hebrew Bible. Maybe some naive Christians, probably new converts, had rebutted saying that they were "sons of Christ" as a tit-for-tat.

Once the Christian missionaries find out about this, they have to (1) correct the mistaken belief that anyone could be a "son of Christ", but at the same time (2) state that Jesus Christ had an exalted status and thus the "seal of the prophets". Considering that those prophets were Jewish prophets (again see Hebrews 1) that would reinforce their ascendancy over the Jewish missionary opponents.

I hope this is not too confusing.
 
Upvote 0

AveRegina

Newbie
Jun 30, 2010
128
2
✟15,468.00
Faith
Other Religion

Sorry ApplePie7, I should have made reference to this observation of yours in my previous post.

The fact that the Qur'an is correcting mistaken beliefs is common with the Injil. There also the writers correct and instruct their readers. I suppose it is the main purpose of all Revelation to correct and guide.

Best
 
Upvote 0

AveRegina

Newbie
Jun 30, 2010
128
2
✟15,468.00
Faith
Other Religion
Luxenberg missed the true meaning entirely in thinking that “hoorin” refers to ‘white raisins’.

I think you misunderstand or are not aware of the methodology of Luxenberg.

You assume the language of the Quran to be classical Arabic. Luxenberg makes no such assumption. He is of the opinion that the text of the Quran is a mixture of classical Arabic, Syriac-Aramaic and a hybrid of the two.

I see no problem with these assumptions. The Christians of that place and time had an extensive ecclesiastical literature in Syriac. There were many, many Syriac speaking missionaries at that time in the Near East.

Also, there was at that time no Arabic literature, no books had yet been written in Arabic. So, there was no alternative but to write religious (and other) literature in Aramaic.

In addition Aramaic was also the language of the Jews. At that time the Talmud was being written in Aramaic. See Quran 5:13 and 5:41, which could be understood as Christian anti-Jewish polemic regarding the writing of the Talmud and possibly the Targums.

Going back to Luxenberg. When he reads a passage in the Quran that presents difficulties he looks first at possible diacritical changes in Arabic and then if it still does not work attempts whether using an Aramaic word instead of an Arabic one may make more sense.

He describes his method with great detail in his book.
 
Upvote 0

ApplePie7

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2007
2,500
79
✟3,030.00
Faith
Christian


This is how I am rendering this ayah...



ما كان محمد أبا أحد من رجالكم ولكن رسول


الله وخاتم النبين وكان الله بكل شيء عليما


Ma kana muhammadun aba ahadin min rijalikum walakin rasoola Allahi wakhatama alnnabiyyeena wakana Allahu bikulli shay-in AAaleeman

33.40 The Praised One was worthy of (the) Father; one from your men, and but “allah's” Messenger, and the sealing agent of the prophets, and worthy of “allah” on account of everything that He will, according to His knowledge.
 
Upvote 0

ApplePie7

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2007
2,500
79
✟3,030.00
Faith
Christian


Good points...
 
Upvote 0

ApplePie7

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2007
2,500
79
✟3,030.00
Faith
Christian

Then let's see his extant versions of Syrio-Aramaic Korans...






Can you provide an ancient Syrio-Aramaic Koran for review...?






Actually, Luxenberg almost entirely dismisses the established classic Arabic Lexicography as he feels that tafsirs have amply covered and revealed any potential meanings in the Arabic.

Wrong.

Any Koranic Arabic exegesis of mine is 1000x more provable than his, from what I have seen.

This is not to say that he does not have any ideas without merit...I thoroughly enjoyed his insight into the pre-Koranic inscriptions referring to Jesus Christ as 'Muhammad' in the inner octagon of the Dome of the Rock.
 
Upvote 0

Islam_mulia

Senior Veteran
Jan 17, 2005
4,445
63
✟6,523.00
Faith
Muslim
You may wish to read the critics of Luxemberg's ideas:

From Alphonse Mingana To Christoph Luxenberg: Arabic Script & The Alleged Syriac Origins Of The Qur'an
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Bump for Thread Necromancers.
LLOJ is King of thread necromancy on CF

Matt 12:41 `Men, Ninevites, shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation, this, and they shall be condemning it
that they repent/reform into the proclamation of Jonah and Behold! more of Jonah here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_(Internet)

"Necrobumping" (also known as "Gravedigging"), occurs when a forum thread that has been inactive for a long time, typically years, is bumped by a reader, usually in response to what he inadvertently believes to be an ongoing discussion. Most of the time this is met with ridicule and sometimes a ban, and can be quite annoying to adept members.
 
Upvote 0

AveRegina

Newbie
Jun 30, 2010
128
2
✟15,468.00
Faith
Other Religion
Hi Islam_mulla!



Thanks for the link. It will take me some time to go through it, though. It seems to be well written.


Consider the concluding paragraph:
===========================
one could say that the Muslims read their scripture and misunderstood it; had they understood it, they would be Christians.
===========================

Why, but that is the opinion of ApplePie7 and myself. Interesting conclusion.
 
Upvote 0