Miracles: Exceptional events or a way of thinking?

[DrJon]

There are two ways to think about miracles. The miracles that Jesus performed were so dramatic that they could only be seen as evidence of divine intervention. But many would say that we need to recognize the hand of God in everyday events, or even to recognize everything as a miracle. Here are some great thinkers who suggest this latter way of thinking:

Miracles are not contrary to nature, but only contrary to what we know about nature. St. Augustine
Each moment of worry, anxiety or stress represents lack of faith in miracles, for they never cease. T.F. Hodge
Miracles happen every day. Not just in remote country villages or at holy sites halfway across the globe, but here, in our own lives. Deepak Chopra
To me every hour of the light and dark is a miracle. Every cubic inch of space is a miracle. Walt Whitman
All change is a miracle to contemplate; but it is a miracle which is taking place every second. Henry David Thoreau
We must not allow the clock and the calendar to blind us to the fact that each moment of life is a miracle and mystery. H. G. Wells

Which viewpoint makes the most sense for Christians?

999 Miracles

 

[Albion]

Which viewpoint makes the most sense for Christians?

"The miracles that Jesus performed were so dramatic that they could only be seen as evidence of divine intervention."

 

[SkyWriting]

Miracles are not contrary to nature, but only contrary to what we know about nature.

The process of making wine and healing people is well known.
Jesus did not need to follow normal procedures, as you imply.

 

[DrJon]

The process of making wine and healing people is well known.
Jesus did not need to follow normal procedures, as you imply.

I was quoting Saint Augustine, not necessarily endorsing his statement that miracles are not contrary to nature. But could he be saying that, since God creates miracles, that they are part of the natural order? Sort of the same concept as the President giving himself a pardon not being an illegal act.

999 Miracles

 

[xpower]

Miracles are "super"natural exceptional events.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

You want to experience a miracle today, right now? Contemplate and give thanx to God for each and every breath you take.

Want something a bit flashier perhaps.... witness the birth of a child. (extra miracle credits if it's your own)

How about the deadly car crash you were never in because God delayed your journey through a construction zone or that annoyingly slow driver ahead of you.

The innocent love of a child...

The forgiveness you don't deserve from your spouse when you've messed up big time....

The long suffering of God for the continuous sins we continue to repeat.

There are miracles everywhere if you have eyes to see.

 

[SkyWriting]

I was quoting Saint Augustine, not necessarily endorsing his statement that miracles are not contrary to nature. But could he be saying that, since God creates miracles, that they are part of the natural order? Sort of the same concept as the President giving himself a pardon not being an illegal act.

The natural man is not with God.
The natural world is not part of God.

14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=+natural+

 

[SkyWriting]

But many would say that we need to recognize the hand of God in everyday events, or even to recognize everything as a miracle.

The miracle is allowing God to have control.

 

[DrJon]

You want to experience a miracle today, right now? Contemplate and give thanx to God for each and every breath you take ...
There are miracles everywhere if you have eyes to see.

Thank you, EastCoastRemnant - exactly what I was thinking when I asked whether miracles are a way of thinking. Some would object to that use of the word "miracle," but we can certainly see the power of God working in our lives.

http://www.999miracles.com

 

[SkyWriting]

There are two ways to think about miracles.

Or maybe more.

 

[SkyWriting]

But could he be saying that, since God creates miracles, that they are part of the natural order?

They are...kind of.

God changes our minds to recognise His hand in our lives. That is the miracle. It's not easy.

 

[DrJon]

They are...kind of.

God changes our minds to recognise His hand in our lives. That is the miracle. It's not easy.

I like that perspective, SkyWriting. I sometimes wonder why He doesn't reveal himself more obviously - but many people would refuse to believe no matter what He did.

http://999miracles.com

 

[SkyWriting]

I like that perspective, SkyWriting. I sometimes wonder why He doesn't reveal himself more obviously - but many people would refuse to believe no matter what He did. http://999miracles.com

It seems that the scriptures and the body of believers is
adequate for us today. Early believers had less to have faith in.
And God is fond of faith.

28But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."

 

[Vicomte13]

"The miracles that Jesus performed were so dramatic that they could only be seen as evidence of divine intervention."

Miracles break the laws of nature. They are God's intervention that specifically sets aside the normal operation of his physical laws in order to achieve a specific result He desires, that would not otherwise happen were His natural laws of physics allowed to run unaltered.

A miracle is a suspension of the laws of physics.

Supernatural beings can do that - God, but also (to a lesser extent) demonic forces. Therefore, the simple fact that the laws of physics have been broken by a spirit does not mean that God has intervened. Lesser miracles can also be deceptive works of evil spirits.

Certain miracles, however, such as major healings and resurrections, or creating life or bringing it back from the dead, are not within the range of power of Satan and evil spirits. That is why Jesus' miracles were, by their nature, not properly called "casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub", for Beelzebub does not have the power to effect major healings or raising the dead. If one sees those things, they are of God.

Which is why Lourdes is so important. There are major healing miracles - Jesus-sized things such as healing the congenitally blind - at Lourdes, and the Devil does not have the power to do such things. It can only be God. And given the circumstances under which Lourdes came to be what it is, the fact of real divine miracles there puts a Divine Imprimatur on the place in a way that Catholics would expect, but others would find really disturbing, if they thought about it.

The healing miracles at Lourdes are proof of the truth of Christianity, but also of a certain doctrines upon which all Christians do not agree.

 

[Albion]

The healing miracles at Lourdes are proof of the truth of Christianity, but also of a certain doctrines upon which all Christians do not agree.

That's something spoken by a person who wants to believe it to be so. The number of actual healings, etc. attributable to Lourdes is miniscule in comparison to all those who hoped to get one, and they can easily be explained by natural factors.

 

[Vicomte13]

That's something spoken by a person who wants to believe it to be so. The number of actual healings, etc. attributable to Lourdes is miniscule in comparison to all those who hoped to get one, and they can easily be explained by natural factors.

It's actually spoken by somebody who broke his neck alone in a lake as a boy and sank, paralyzed and drowning, and who made an answered prayer to God on the spot and was miraculously healed, but had to be silent about it for decades.

I believe in God because of miracles, personally experienced. I do not come at religion from "wanting to believe" anything. I start from believing nothing, and then coming face to face with God through miracles and divine interventions, and then seeking out the nature of God from there, and discovering that Catholic Christianity, specifically, is where the miracles I can study are.

Certain miracles at Lourdes cannot "easily be explained by natural factors". You have asserted that out of bare belief, on your part, without having actually studied certain of the medical miracles. I know this because I have, and the reason I have is because I have myself experienced several major miracles, including my own healing.

Having just said that, I'll retire from the board now for about 6 months. Because the conversation after this point is always quite horrible for me, and I'd rather now.

Peace. Maybe I will see you again on this board next year.

 

[Albion]

It's actually spoken by somebody who broke his neck alone in a lake as a boy and sank, paralyzed and drowning, and who made an answered prayer to God on the spot and was miraculously healed, but had to be silent about it for decades.

At Lourdes?? The issue wasn't whether or not miracles occur.

Certain miracles at Lourdes cannot "easily be explained by natural factors". You have asserted that out of bare belief, on your part, without having actually studied certain of the medical miracles. I know this because I have, and the reason I have is because I have myself experienced several major miracles, including my own healing.

Apparently not at Lourdes.

Having just said that, I'll retire from the board now for about 6 months. Because the conversation after this point is always quite horrible for me, and I'd rather now.

Naaa. I won't do that to you.

Peace. Maybe I will see you again on this board next year.

I'd like that.