"Minorities" and the fire company.

[The Thadman]

This was taken from the thread "What rights should gays and lesbians be 'allowed' to have?"

----------

Now, it's devil's advocate time: Take a deep breath, and let's see if we can chew this connundrum out together:

I happen to know a bunch of volunteer fire squads, and they happen to be almost solely very "burly Christian men." Homosexual men make them feel uncomfortable, and in a volunteer position where lives are on the line if you can't trust or feel comfortable around someone COMPLETELY, people die. LOTS of people die. So should there be or not be a vote of confidence among members of such an organization for new recruits that would allow for selective discrimination from a volunteer squad?

Replace Homosexuals with Jews ( Yo! ), or Africans, or Latinos, or whatever other "minority" you wish.

Is someone's "right" to such a thing more important than the lives of, not only the people such an organization is trying to save, but the lives of the members, and their OWN life as well (specifically within these situations)?

----------

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[fejao]

Should these people who have a problem with minorities be in the fire service? If they have a problem or feel uncomfortable serving with minority groups, whats to say they will have a probelm with saving a person from a minority group. Discrimination is discrimination, even if you wrap it up in nice carefully picked scriptures.

Fejao x

 

[The Thadman]

Should these people who have a problem with minorities be in the fire service?

Well, to that, let me post part of what I had posted in the earlier thread:

----------
The towns have even considered the rammifications of such a thing (if it were ever to become a problem), and if they were to (excuse the pun ) "fire" them all for it, there wouldn't be enough people for a volunteer fire squad, so they'd have to go professional, but the budget will not allow for that by any stretch or means (besides a -significant- tax hike and importing firemen from other districts, which is even -more- difficult and expensive).
----------

Some districts can't even afford a volunteer company, so they must rely upon their neighbors.

So, in short, if they were fired for their beliefs about homosexuality, there wouldn't be a fire company.

If they have a problem or feel uncomfortable serving with minority groups, whats to say they will have a probelm with saving a person from a minority group.

When you're actually in a fire, you can't see if who you're rescuing is a minority or not (you're lucky if you have any visibility at all) or in many cases even if they are dead or alive; hence, the problem only (on a practical level) is through your teammates who you know, who you suit up with, and with whom you share the ride.

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[CaDan]

*shnort*

So the community is to depend on people whose prejudices are more important than their sworn duties to serve the community. Great, just great.

These same arguments were made when racial minorities were brought into fire departments. The arguments were wrong then and they are wrong now. If a community cannot field a fire fighting force that will serve the entire community, then that community perhaps has deeper problems than fires.

Would you accept a fire department that would not respond to calls made by "Christ killers?" Or one that does not go to the "colored part of town?"

As for your examples, they are bunk. As you should be well aware, fire departments are generally first responders for many things besides fires. The majority of incidents are not fires, but rather health emergencies such as heart attacks. The race and sex of the victim is easily ascertainable in such situations.

 

[ahab]

I think all this does is show that some people think things can be justified on the basis of analogy despite the reality. Discrimination may well be discrimation in all cases but would they be right to object for example to those scared of fire, or the severly disbaled to be accpeted equally? Could these people operate adequately? all wholly and fully loved by God. I think I would not be a suitable choice as a surgeon without any medical training despite not being Jewish, homosexual, Africans, Latinos, or whatever other "minority" you wish. I think the answer to the question is the question in what way are homosexuals supposed to be unsuitable for the activity of fire fighting? Its the activities like same-sex sex and adultery that are condemned, are any of these people going to indulge in these activities on the job?

Peace

 

[UberLutheran]

...that they can't work with them, then there's a pretty chance those firefighters going to feel so uncomfortable around those "OTHER" people that they may not be effective at rescuing or (God forbid!) administering CPR.

[sarcasm]Can you IMAGINE a homophobic firefighter having to administer CPR to (gasp!) a gay man?? [/sarcasm]

If firefighters are that uncomfortable around certain people, then I think those firefighters need to consider working in a different profession.

 

[rebel_conservative]

I put no. it is regrettable, but we should put people before politics. because the lives of those saved by bigotted firefighters should come first. also, I am not sure what status a "volunteer fire service" actually has... we have have a professional fire service here. so if it is a private charity, then they can exclude whomever they want. I think the best solution would be to talk with the firefighters, educate them. hopefully, they would come around.

 

[The Thadman]

...that they can't work with them, then there's a pretty chance those firefighters going to feel so uncomfortable around those "OTHER" people that they may not be effective at rescuing or (God forbid!) administering CPR.

[sarcasm]Can you IMAGINE a homophobic firefighter having to administer CPR to (gasp!) a gay man?? [/sarcasm]

Unless you've actually been in a fire and watched your comrade next to you fall through three floors of burning charchoal and land on his head, you know that when the drive to save someone kicks in, it doesn't matter who they are.Just remember that these people risk their lives daily to save people, so your "sacrasm" is misplaced at best.

However, in ascessing a situation, trusting eachother's judgement, and bonding with your teammates beforehand, before you even get into a situation, it is important not have a -single- fibre of your being holdling you back from trusting them. If you go in not trusting your teammates trying to save someone and you don't trust eachother, you trip over them, hampering -everyone- from reaching their goal: The victim.

If firefighters are that uncomfortable around certain people, then I think those firefighters need to consider working in a different profession.

These people I'm talking about are volunteers. They have day jobs and are taking precious hours out of their lives daily to risk them. If they "worked in a different profession" there would be no fire squads in those towns.

IMHO, rebel_conservative is right. People should come before politics, at least until politics get better.

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[Scholar in training]

Interesting thread. I'll vote on the poll when (if) I see a solution that completely resolves the problem in my mind.

 

[UberLutheran]

IMHO, rebel_conservative is right. People should come before politics, at least until politics get better.

Peace!
-Steve-o

And by the way -- the town I grew up in (population 956) had a volunteer fire department which had to put out fires in the houses of Republicans and Democrats (and gays and straights) alike.

 

[rebel_conservative]

...that they can't work with them, then there's a pretty chance those firefighters going to feel so uncomfortable around those "OTHER" people that they may not be effective at rescuing or (God forbid!) administering CPR.

[sarcasm]Can you IMAGINE a homophobic firefighter having to administer CPR to (gasp!) a gay man?? [/sarcasm]

I would like to think that no matter how bigotted they might be, no matter that they would be reluctant to work or socialise with gay (or black or catholic) people, they would rescue someone regardless of their race, religion, sexuality etc.

 

[Rochir]

...that they can't work with them, then there's a pretty chance those firefighters going to feel so uncomfortable around those "OTHER" people that they may not be effective at rescuing or (God forbid!) administering CPR.

[sarcasm]Can you IMAGINE a homophobic firefighter having to administer CPR to (gasp!) a gay man?? [/sarcasm]

If firefighters are that uncomfortable around certain people, then I think those firefighters need to consider working in a different profession.

I can see it right now ... Fire fighters refusing to do their duty because they know the people they'd rescue do not life a lifestyle they condone. Oh boy!!!