Ministering to equals

[BrotherAtArms]

As a minister, one thing I'm struggling with is where the balance is between being equal with my brothers and sisters yet being their leader spiritually. Can someone give me some advice in this area?

One struggle is in the church. The other is gently instructing without acting as someone who is above the other, though knowing my knowledge of the situation is greater than their own. Some of Paul's writings talk about this, but I'm having a hard time find the balance between being the instructor without coming off as "I'm greater than you".
I don't believe myself to be above others, but I understand that I am in a leadership and teaching/instructing position.

 

[karen freeinchristman]

As a minister, one thing I'm struggling with is where the balance is between being equal with my brothers and sisters yet being their leader spiritually. Can someone give me some advice in this area?

One struggle is in the church. The other is gently instructing without acting as someone who is above the other, though knowing my knowledge of the situation is greater than their own. Some of Paul's writings talk about this, but I'm having a hard time find the balance between being the instructor without coming off as "I'm greater than you".
I don't believe myself to be above others, but I understand that I am in a leadership and teaching/instructing position.

Good question! I'd also like to hear some suggestions from people here who are experienced at this kind of thing!

 

[drich0150]

i think we need to look at the example that Jesus left us. If anyone could have had a "I'm greater than you complex" it should have been him. But he lead by example, and that example was of a servant first. he had a humble demeanor that exuded strength and wisdom, whether he girded his loins with a servants cloth and washed the feet of his disciples or he stood at the front of the boat and commanded the waves and the winds to "peace be still" he lead by Strong yet humble example. He was a true servant King. If you truly wish to "serve" as he did then I wouldn't be afraid of bending the knee and serve those who look to you for spiritual guidance, rather than being a "spiritual leader."

Ask God for this guidance, ask him to be the servant, he'd have you to be.

 

[Always in His Presence]

As a minister, one thing I'm struggling with is where the balance is between being equal with my brothers and sisters yet being their leader spiritually. Can someone give me some advice in this area?

One struggle is in the church. The other is gently instructing without acting as someone who is above the other, though knowing my knowledge of the situation is greater than their own. Some of Paul's writings talk about this, but I'm having a hard time find the balance between being the instructor without coming off as "I'm greater than you".
I don't believe myself to be above others, but I understand that I am in a leadership and teaching/instructing position.

Pastor's lead - Youth Pastors are the shepherds of the Youth.

While the ground at the foot of the cross is level and God does not love one child over another - positionally speaking, not everyone is a leader.

Jesus is our greatest example of what that servant leader looks like. He has the humility to wash the disciples feet and the leadership skills to rebuke Peter for not listening to Him.

 

[PreacherMan_1]

I totally know where you are coming from here. Being a young pastor, this is one area I have struggled with. I mean, how can I preach to others about sin when I'm a sinner too. But one thing I have learned and which has helped me is that God has ordained the shepherd position to be the leader. If God has placed you in that position, then you are the leader by God's authority. So accept it and teach. Don't fall for the "it makes me look like I'm better than everyone else" lie. That is Satan's attempt to discourage you. It isn't that you are better than anyone, but that God has ordained you to be the leader. Accept that role and lead by God's authority.

But the "it makes me look like I'm better than everyone else" notion does have one good quality. It will keep you humble. Just do not let it keep you from your God-ordained role of being the leader.

Blessings,

James

 

[plmarquette]

Managing by Storying Around .... good book , Jesus told stories ....
http://www.visions-west.com/storyingaround.htm

 

[revanneosl]

We pastors have so much positional authoity that it is essential for us to maintain a strong inner sense of humility. Here's how I do it:

I try to think of myself always as a servant. And I mean a real servant, a waitress in the household of God. God invites the whole world to join his household, to be his adopted sons & daughters. But some few of us he takes aside and says, "look - it's a big household and they make a lot of messes. Somebody has to sweep up around here. I want you to do the job."

So we do - or we should. When it's time for the family dinner at the Lord's Table, we prepare the food (via the eucharistic prayer), we serve the meal, we (in some traditions) sample the food first to make sure it's okay or (in other traditions) eat last, and we clean up after. When it's time to give the baby it's bath (at the baptismal font) we do that. When it's time to care for the sick & the dying, we get out of bed at 3:00 a.m. and take care of them.

Also - I hasten to add, we should also be doing some of the cleaning up in the kitchen after the parish potluck dinner, mopping up the parish hall after the plumbing backs up and fixing the furnace when it goes on the fritz in the middle of winter. OUr sacramental servanthood should always be backed up by a healthy dose of actual servanthood.

As to being afraid that a sinner can't preach or teach against sin - nonsense! Nobody but sinners ever has preached (excepting Jesus of course) The necessary thing is that you be honest in your preaching. You're a sinner. Admit it right up front! "This week's text makes it clear that envy is a terrible sin, and I can tell you that's true, because I'm tempted to the sin of envy all the time" Like that.

Grace and peace to you as you seek to temper leadership with humility.
Anne

 

[BrotherAtArms]

I really liked that look on it, thanks

 

[EyezOFire]

As a minister, one thing I'm struggling with is where the balance is between being equal with my brothers and sisters yet being their leader spiritually. Can someone give me some advice in this area?

One struggle is in the church. The other is gently instructing without acting as someone who is above the other, though knowing my knowledge of the situation is greater than their own. Some of Paul's writings talk about this, but I'm having a hard time find the balance between being the instructor without coming off as "I'm greater than you".
I don't believe myself to be above others, but I understand that I am in a leadership and teaching/instructing position.

I think this may be able to help you out, when Christ calls someone to a place of christian leadership, it's to a lower place than that of your brothers and sisters. Remember what Jesus said- The Gentiles lord it over you but among you it should not be, for he who wants to be the greatest must become the least. The bible talks about the preisthood of all believers and all believers are called to serve. Some are called to a greater degree of serventhood which would be a servants servant- this is christian leader. I want to be clear that you are not in anyway these peoples "spiritual leader." That role is only reserved for Christ himself. Do you believe in your heart you are greater because you have a title in a church or perhaps you have walked a little farther down the road in Christ? Or perhaps it's the weight of the title and the perception of that title. I think in your case the title is creating the pride and the struggle. Why can't you just be you in the Lord and throw the title away? This doesnt mean you are abandoning your call and doesnt make you less significant in the Kingdom of God. Every person is significant in the kingdom of God. Besides it says in the scriptures do not be called Father for one is your Father, and do not be called Rabbi for One is your Rabbi. Spiritual Authority comes with maturity in Christ- it comes from having walked down the road, going through battles etc.. It does not say do as I say because I know more, it more or less says here is what I see, I love you but I dont think this decision is the best because I forsee this or that, or I think that is a great Idea. I will let you make the decision. Ultimately it says I'm here to walk with you, and if you fall I wont say I told you so, but rather okay let me help you back up on the road. I want to help you get to your destination.

As always just my two cents - much love bro

 

[Autumnleaf]

As a minister, one thing I'm struggling with is where the balance is between being equal with my brothers and sisters yet being their leader spiritually. Can someone give me some advice in this area?

One struggle is in the church. The other is gently instructing without acting as someone who is above the other, though knowing my knowledge of the situation is greater than their own. Some of Paul's writings talk about this, but I'm having a hard time find the balance between being the instructor without coming off as "I'm greater than you".
I don't believe myself to be above others, but I understand that I am in a leadership and teaching/instructing position.

In being equal with them you have to behave yourself. When someone tells an off color joke or acts inappropriately its up to you to act differently. Like a sober friend talking a drunk friend out of driving home from a party. You have to maintain a Godly perspective. Its not for only you, its for everyone's good. If you point out when people are offensive they will probably call you names like goody goody etc... but that is to be expected because of the position you are in.

The opposite side of this is to be down to earth and have a sense of humor. You can't be too austere or you will come across as unapproachable. Its a fine line but you will manage it with experience.

 

[BrotherAtArms]

All of this is great advice, you guys have no idea. Keep posting more advice, please. It's like it all comes in my times of need.

 

[Amandax3God]

I have definitely struggled with humility problems inside, at some point. I'm not a youth pastor (I'm youth, though.) But I've always been more of a leader-type, and more mature than the typical of my age. When I was asked to serve on my church consistory, I think that went to my head a bit. I don't think it showed on the outside at all really, but it was something that ate at me internally, and a way I knew I didn't want to feel that way at all, I wanted to be humbled in my heart.

So, I began thinking about it this way. When we take on "leadership" and "teaching" positions for aiding our fellow brothers and sisters, it really is almost the opposite. We're serving them, we're guiding them, and we're serving God by having his light shine through us to show his love and wisdom to others.

So, instead of thinking "leading," think of yourself guiding and holding together.
When trying to find how to treat others equally with yourself, put yourself lower than that even, as a servant. Because that's what you are, a servant of Christ. Although there are many additional responsibilities in becoming a pastor or youth pastor, remember also, that each of us, regardless of our position in church, have responsibility to serve God, and reach out to others, help guide those close to us to God and fufill the gifts in which we are given for a purpose. You can also think of your calling to minister a gift from God that you should be thankful for, because it is a special gift.

I can understand how you're thinking, I can relate in various life situations. Sometimes when I feel discouraged, or insecure or vulnerable, or simply unsure, I build myself up in the wrong way, and instead, I should really center my mind and focus on how to continue to please God.

There is a lot of great advice here, I think you will surely be able to shift your feelings, and with God's guidance, be more humble in times when you feel differently. It's a difficult thing, from experience, but you'll get over this hill, definitely.

 

[rob64]

As a minister, one thing I'm struggling with is where the balance is between being equal with my brothers and sisters yet being their leader spiritually. Can someone give me some advice in this area?

One struggle is in the church. The other is gently instructing without acting as someone who is above the other, though knowing my knowledge of the situation is greater than their own. Some of Paul's writings talk about this, but I'm having a hard time find the balance between being the instructor without coming off as "I'm greater than you".
I don't believe myself to be above others, but I understand that I am in a leadership and teaching/instructing position.

There is some excelent advice here, I dont want to take away from any of it, I just have a few comments, as I have also struggled with this.

On the subject of teaching, one of the first things I learned was, "knowledge puffs up". Obtaining the knowledge seems to be the easy part. Knowing how to distribute the knowledge w/o being puffed up is obviously the hard part. It's what our flesh craves - attention! Pride. We have to humble ourselves. It's not something we can ask God to do for us, He told us to do it!

On the subject of being a leader, I agree that we need to be a servant, but there's more to it. The Bible gives us a list of qualifications for leadership. And there is a reason for it. The Bible also gives specific instructions for church discipline. And there's a reason for that. I believe the church has strayed from these practices. Nowadays, the leadership usually goes to the one who puts the most money in the offering tray, or the one who has the most clout in the community. But thats not how it origionated.

 

[BrotherAtArms]

I believe the church has strayed from these practices. Nowadays, the leadership usually goes to the one who puts the most money in the offering tray, or the one who has the most clout in the community. But thats not how it origionated.

It's an amazing thing that you brought this up, because as I was reading your comment I started to recall some 'disagreements' my pastor and I had this past week.

He said that I should dress up for church, I say that that's not how God wants me to be.
He said church is a business, I said that it's wrong that it is.

I read the Bible and look at the way the church is being run and I don't see a connection, and it's been driving me crazy. Church isn't Biblical anymore from what I can see.

I read these two articles:
One about 'church business'.
http://openswitch.org/2008/06/03/the-church-today-is-big-business/

One about wearing your 'Sunday best'.
http://www.fineartsguild.com/guild/member_newsDetail.cfm?memberID=25&newsID=25

I know these are pretty out there, but I've become nervous for the church because I see a group of people gathering to follow the leader, instead of coming together to show our love for God and one another. Does anybody else follow what I'm saying?

 

[drich0150]

I know these are pretty out there, but I've become nervous for the church because I see a group of people gathering to follow the leader, instead of coming together to show our love for God and one another. Does anybody else follow what I'm saying?

I think alot of us here @ CF see a denigration in the church. If you look at the "christian advise" section you can see alot of people (young in the faith) questioning Who or What the church is or is becoming. I've also had similar struggles in my past ministries as you are having with your "Religious business." It seem to be about money and numbers.

To me I would rather spend my time ministering to those who have fallen thru the "cracks" of mega ministries than be apart of all of the politics that the church has become. I see the influx of Christianity on the popular culture as the new dark age of the church. We have sold our souls as it were for main stream digestibility and maximum profit. Pop christianity or "Religion" is not what The Lord wants for his Church. But if you do have the stomach for this sort compromise (Playing church politics) For the sake of those who are young in spirit, To be sort of a beacon or a city on a hill top.. Then your services are needed now in the failing church more than ever. I would stay for as long as you can hold out physically, and spiritually to fight the good fight to help everyone you can, to see past religion and develop a real relationship with the Spirit.
Like all things, When that time has come to an end, just know God will put you to work where ever his Church is, or in what ever form it appears.. Heron one of our members made a commit that has stuck with me because of the truth it contains. "Never has the church been forced underground for it's survival before like this, in a "free" society."

It's kinda scary if you think about it but it's true. Home churches are springing up and alot of "Advise" given here should be stuff that members of a body of believers should be able to take to each other or to the leadership, but for what ever reason can not. Well, in any rate no matter what form the church's next incarnation will take, it will need some sort of leadership. The fact your heart doesn't have you callous to the truth of what "religion" is supposed to be, will help you and those like you see to the church's transformation, and God's work will continue.

 

[BrotherAtArms]

I know I can't make 'absolute' statements about the church (all over america), but I do see a lot of the church being more about the numbers and money. It's like it's just become a place to be entertained by the people on stage who are 'paid to be holy'.
It's become so hard also to be a good/true witness to the people at the church I minister at because so many of them are so wrapped up in the pastor's doctrines, I don't know that they would really be interested in 'true religion'.
I've spoken several times in the main sanctuary (that is to the whole church), and every time I speak about loving God with all you got and basically the scripture where Jesus says that when you fed the least of these you also fed me.
I never see any action taken about it. Even though some people say what I said was what they needed to here, the church itself does nothing out of the ordinary.
I hope I don't sound slanderous ><
I know in a some small way the pastor has been telling others how I'm 'rebellious' to his leadership when in reality I'm trying to the Biblically correct thing, or the most righteous thing.

I want to be a part of a real NT church movement. No more of this attending a concert with a guy shouting the whole service, I want the love restored to the church. I want church to be where you get away from the business side of life and just be in relationship with the body of Christ.

I did however feel that for the church I'm at now... well let me back a little. Me and my wife are very intimate with the Lord, and when we go to the church we're at now, we try our best to worship, but it's distracted by, "C'MON THAT AIN'T WORSHIP!"
We don't get fed, and are distracted from touching the Father's heart.
But, I feel that I've been able to come to an idea that makes sense, and that is, "Suffer the little children to come unto Me".
Many of the people in this church are 'new Christians'. Though I feel that their being led down an improper path, I think that this is just a time of them being raised from birth until the Father leads them to a closer relationship with Him.

I'm really praying about this situation, because even though the pastor told me that he's disappointed in the lack of progress in the youth (numbers), and I corrected him by telling him he has no idea how much closer to the Lord these kids have gotten, I am wondering if I am needing to leave the church. Me and my wife find it difficult to go there because we don't get anything there, at all. We pour ourselves out into the ministry, and we try to find edification elsewhere, whether at home or at our home Church where intimacy is encouraged...

I know this has been a long post, I apologize, I'm just so ready for the church (all over the country) to be more like what it was in Acts. That is a true Church in my eyes.

Please pray for God to help us in this time.
And yes, advice is still all the more welcome, I've seen nothing but great advice

 

[rob64]

It's an amazing thing that you brought this up, because as I was reading your comment I started to recall some 'disagreements' my pastor and I had this past week.

He said that I should dress up for church, I say that that's not how God wants me to be.
He said church is a business, I said that it's wrong that it is.

I read the Bible and look at the way the church is being run and I don't see a connection, and it's been driving me crazy. Church isn't Biblical anymore from what I can see.

I read these two articles:
One about 'church business'.
http://openswitch.org/2008/06/03/the-church-today-is-big-business/

One about wearing your 'Sunday best'.
http://www.fineartsguild.com/guild/member_newsDetail.cfm?memberID=25&newsID=25

I know these are pretty out there, but I've become nervous for the church because I see a group of people gathering to follow the leader, instead of coming together to show our love for God and one another. Does anybody else follow what I'm saying?

WOW! Yes, churches today have become more of a "production", getting the lighting just right, the overhead projectors in focus... the list is endless.
Also, from my experience, I've been looking for a church that even comes close to how the New Testament describes her. I'm still looking.
Unfortunately, you are right, the church is being run like a business.
I really do believe we are in the age of the apostate church.
The good news: pretty soon we can cash in our redemption!!!!!!

 

[rob64]

I know I can't make 'absolute' statements about the church (all over america), but I do see a lot of the church being more about the numbers and money. It's like it's just become a place to be entertained by the people on stage who are 'paid to be holy'.
It's become so hard also to be a good/true witness to the people at the church I minister at because so many of them are so wrapped up in the pastor's doctrines, I don't know that they would really be interested in 'true religion'.
I've spoken several times in the main sanctuary (that is to the whole church), and every time I speak about loving God with all you got and basically the scripture where Jesus says that when you fed the least of these you also fed me.
I never see any action taken about it. Even though some people say what I said was what they needed to here, the church itself does nothing out of the ordinary.
I hope I don't sound slanderous ><
I know in a some small way the pastor has been telling others how I'm 'rebellious' to his leadership when in reality I'm trying to the Biblically correct thing, or the most righteous thing.

I want to be a part of a real NT church movement. No more of this attending a concert with a guy shouting the whole service, I want the love restored to the church. I want church to be where you get away from the business side of life and just be in relationship with the body of Christ.

I did however feel that for the church I'm at now... well let me back a little. Me and my wife are very intimate with the Lord, and when we go to the church we're at now, we try our best to worship, but it's distracted by, "C'MON THAT AIN'T WORSHIP!"
We don't get fed, and are distracted from touching the Father's heart.
But, I feel that I've been able to come to an idea that makes sense, and that is, "Suffer the little children to come unto Me".
Many of the people in this church are 'new Christians'. Though I feel that their being led down an improper path, I think that this is just a time of them being raised from birth until the Father leads them to a closer relationship with Him.

I'm really praying about this situation, because even though the pastor told me that he's disappointed in the lack of progress in the youth (numbers), and I corrected him by telling him he has no idea how much closer to the Lord these kids have gotten, I am wondering if I am needing to leave the church. Me and my wife find it difficult to go there because we don't get anything there, at all. We pour ourselves out into the ministry, and we try to find edification elsewhere, whether at home or at our home Church where intimacy is encouraged...

I know this has been a long post, I apologize, I'm just so ready for the church (all over the country) to be more like what it was in Acts. That is a true Church in my eyes.

Please pray for God to help us in this time.
And yes, advice is still all the more welcome, I've seen nothing but great advice

As I was thinking last night about the state of the church, I was also reading some scripture and what was I reading, but the part that says some of the disciples shook off the dust from their feet.!

Let me throw this at ya- Did you know that when the New Testament was being written, not one person, including Jesus himself, could do anything inside the temple?
They ministered outside the temple. Why? because the religious leaders of their day were too pious. It even says in the Bible that they could not do anything in the temple. Thats when one of them said, "Your blood be on your own heads, I'm taking this message to the gentiles".
Usually when Jesus openly and publicly rebuked people, guess who they were? Proud, arrogent religious leaders!

 

[BrotherAtArms]

As I was thinking last night about the state of the church, I was also reading some scripture and what was I reading, but the part that says some of the disciples shook off the dust from their feet.!

Let me throw this at ya- Did you know that when the New Testament was being written, not one person, including Jesus himself, could do anything inside the temple?
They ministered outside the temple. Why? because the religious leaders of their day were too pious. It even says in the Bible that they could not do anything in the temple. Thats when one of them said, "Your blood be on your own heads, I'm taking this message to the gentiles".
Usually when Jesus openly and publicly rebuked people, guess who they were? Proud, arrogent religious leaders!

That's true. For some reason the scene of when Jesus over threw the tables came to mind

I love the community of the church once Jesus' work was accomplished. I hate though how church has become what it is. Great post

The good news: pretty soon we can cash in our redemption!!!!!!

AMEN! I so look forward to that day
I know my business on the Earth isn't over yet, but oh how I long for that eternal rest!

I'm looking for the same NT style church you are Rob, and I've heard of one close to my house, but haven't gone yet.
Wondering if I'm going to have to start my own

I was actually thinking about that this past week, I've always heard, "Well so and so went and started their own church. I guess they didn't like the way their home church was being ran."
Truth is, I believe even more churches should be started. Instead of having a McDonalds on every corner we should have church buildings. Not just one huge community church for the entire city, but a church close to every home.

Coka-Cola has a mission statement I heard about that says they want a coke within a foot of every person in America. It sounds out there, but look how well their doing. Why not have a church within walking distance of every home? Community would be so amazing then!

 

[rob64]

That's true. For some reason the scene of when Jesus over threw the tables came to mind

I love the community of the church once Jesus' work was accomplished. I hate though how church has become what it is. Great post




AMEN! I so look forward to that day
I know my business on the Earth isn't over yet, but oh how I long for that eternal rest!

I'm looking for the same NT style church you are Rob, and I've heard of one close to my house, but haven't gone yet.
Wondering if I'm going to have to start my own

I was actually thinking about that this past week, I've always heard, "Well so and so went and started their own church. I guess they didn't like the way their home church was being ran."
Truth is, I believe even more churches should be started. Instead of having a McDonalds on every corner we should have church buildings. Not just one huge community church for the entire city, but a church close to every home.

Coka-Cola has a mission statement I heard about that says they want a coke within a foot of every person in America. It sounds out there, but look how well their doing. Why not have a church within walking distance of every home? Community would be so amazing then!

You, my friend are the one with the best post!