Minimum Wage

[MikeCarra]

Nothing stops you from tipping those workers when they provide a service for you

Do you work for tips?

How does one tip the "dishwasher" at Denny's? (from my experience working in the kitchens for minimum back when I was in school it was relatively rare for the dishwashers to get a cut of the tips at the various restaurants I worked at. Only occasionally, like on Parent's weekend when it was busy. But other than that I was stuck with the pay I got.

Do you go back and tip the dishwashers and the back-kitchen staff at restaurants?

 

[MachZer0]

Except for the fact that McDonald's employees are not allowed to accept tips.

Then eat somewhere that pays minimum wage and allows tips

 

[MachZer0]

Do you work for tips?

How does one tip the "dishwasher" at Denny's? (from my experience working in the kitchens for minimum back when I was in school it was relatively rare for the dishwashers to get a cut of the tips at the various restaurants I worked at. Only occasionally, like on Parent's weekend when it was busy. But other than that I was stuck with the pay I got.

Do you go back and tip the dishwashers and the back-kitchen staff at restaurants?

I don't work, period

 

[14messenger]

Minimum wage should be $25k a year after taxes. No exceptions.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Minimum wage should be $25k a year after taxes. No exceptions.

So the minimum wage for Manhattan, New York should be the same as for Harlingen, Texas?

 

[MikeCarra]

I don't work, period

Oh, so are you one of the "takers"? You know, the 49% of America that Mitt Romney warned us about?

Let me rephrase the question: when you held a job, did you work for tips?

 

[Viren]

I don't think raising the minimum wage will necessarily kill jobs as some other opponents of the practice suggest...

Really, the biggest impact is on everyone who already has jobs that make more than minimum wage.

For example, a person who makes $40k/year when the minimum wage is $7.35 has more money left over after all expenses are paid than a person making $40k/year if the minimum wage were $10.10.

...simply because the cost of goods go up.

I think raising the minimum wage also has a somewhat negative impact on smaller companies by making them less competitive with the big box stores.

Stanford (I believe???) did a study that showed that a big box store like Walmart or Target could offset a minimum wage increase to $14/hour and only raise the price of their products by an average of $0.12. (The simply logic being, the number of sales they make is exponentially larger than the number of employees they have).

This study is often cited by several people who support minimum wage increase as their rationale behind why it should be dramatically increased.

If you only look at big box stores, then the answer appears to be cut and dry...however, if you look at smaller operations that don't do the kind of volume that walmart does, like a hometown grocery store...do you think they could support an increase like that by only raising the cost of goods $0.12? Not a chance...

The impact of minimum wage increases is the smallest on companies that are already the biggest.

As it is, you can walk into a Walmart and get a digiorno pizza for $4.99...you buy that pizza at a small hometown grocery store, it's $6.59 (I use this example because I picked one up on the way home last night from my local grocery store )

...small businesses already have a hard enough time competing with big box stores like walmart...do you really want to throw a curve-ball into the market that only big box stores can absorb and handle gracefully within their business model? You're asking to have an eventual big box monopoly.

The only reason Walmart and Target's prices are as low as they are right now is because there's still enough small business out there that they need to undercut to stay in business (competition keeps prices lower)...you make it tougher and tougher for small companies to compete with walmart, those prices won't stay low forever. Now, instead of $4.99 for that frozen pizza to undercut the $6.59...walmart can charge $6.99 to undercut the small store's $8.59.

Go through this cycle one or two times, whatever gains that minimum wage increase initially provided have been negated by price increases and inflation.

(which, I'm surprised inflation hasn't been brought up more in this thread...inflation is one of the biggest detriments in the market today...way more than a low minimum wage)

That's the problem with monopolies. We could dust off the Sherman anti-trust law which hasn't been used in over 30 years and give small businesses a fighting chance again.

 

[MikeCarra]

Then eat somewhere that pays minimum wage and allows tips

Oh, I see you aren't particularly familiar with how tips work in the food service industry.

In many cases the waiter or waitress is paid BELOW minumum with the ASSUMPTION that tips will make up the remainder of the salary.

You might wish to learn more about the world of work. Is this why you don't work now?

Try the Dept. of Labor website. Google "Department of Labor" and "Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees".

 

[MachZer0]

Oh, I see you aren't particularly familiar with how tips work in the food service industry.

In many cases the waiter or waitress is paid BELOW minumum with the ASSUMPTION that tips will make up the remainder of the salary.

You might wish to learn more about the world of work. Is this why you don't work now?

Try the Dept. of Labor website. Google "Department of Labor" and "Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees".

If you think your server deserves more money, the solution is for you to leave a larger tip

 

[MachZer0]

Oh, so are you one of the "takers"? You know, the 49% of America that Mitt Romney warned us about?

No, I'm a taxpayer

Let me rephrase the question: when you held a job, did you work for tips?

I've worked many jobs, even for minimum wage (including dishwasher), never for tips and i never complained about the wage.

 

[MikeCarra]

I've worked many jobs, even for minimum wage (including dishwasher), never for tips and i never complained about the wage.

I'm assuming that you worked for minimum wage back when it was still worth a bit more in terms of buying power.

Adjusted for inflation it is now worth less than it was in the 1960's.

And, again, I noted that you don't seem to know how tips work in the food service industry anyway (since some people work for LESS than minimum wage with the assumption tips will bring the wage up).

I suspect it's been quite some time since you held a minimum wage job. Maybe you should learn more about the topic if you are going to tell people all about it.

 

[MikeCarra]

If you think your server deserves more money, the solution is for you to leave a larger tip

Why are they paid less than minimum wage?

Especially with a bunch of senior citizen retirees who tip a couple pennies thinking it is still 1939.

(But fail to give those same retirees a COLA adjustment to their social security and hear the squeals and whines!)

 

[MachZer0]

Why are they paid less than minimum wage?

Especially with a bunch of senior citizen retirees who tip a couple pennies thinking it is still 1939.

(But fail to give those same retirees a COLA adjustment to their social security and hear the squeals and whines!)

Source?

And what does that have to do with my point. People who think low wage earners deserve more should offer them more in the form of tips

 

[USCGrad90]

Tax relief? Why should there be?
The rest I thought I addressed in other posts. Your Happy Meal would cost pennies more. Okay, I'm happy to pay mere pennies for what benefits an increase in money circulating would bring - less social safety networks used by minimum wage workers and your son might in fact get that job as demand for goods and services increases.

You cite McDonalds as your example, but I'm talking about a small businees where additional labor costs can't be absorbed across a large corporate structure. In the case of a local business where they have a number of older teens and college students, a 40% wage increase directly goes to the bottom line of the business. For a business that has 20 part-time employees working 20 hours per week, this would mean an additional $1200-1300 or so per week, $5000 per month, or $60,000 per year. The reality is the small business will, as much as possible eliminate what they see as unneeded workers and eliminate training and entry level positions.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That's the problem with monopolies. We could dust off the Sherman anti-trust law which hasn't been used in over 30 years and give small businesses a fighting chance again.

So... try fix bad economic practice with more bad economic practice?, I'll pass on that lol.

Besides, Wal-Mart wouldn't be considered a monopoly. They still have Kmart and Target to compete with them.

 

[stamperben]

You cite McDonalds as your example, but I'm talking about a small businees where additional labor costs can't be absorbed across a large corporate structure. In the case of a local business where they have a number of older teens and college students, a 40% wage increase directly goes to the bottom line of the business. For a business that has 20 part-time employees working 20 hours per week, this would mean an additional $1200-1300 or so per week, $5000 per month, or $60,000 per year. The reality is the small business will, as much as possible eliminate what they see as unneeded workers and eliminate training and entry level positions.

I've seen the example of

Superstore plus only has to raise their price per bottle $0.35 to cover the difference

Mom & Pop Shop has to raise their bottle price by $1.04...
​

and

The only reason Walmart and Target's prices are as low as they are right now is because there's still enough small business out there that they need to undercut to stay in business (competition keeps prices lower)...you make it tougher and tougher for small companies to compete with walmart, those prices won't stay low forever. Now, instead of $4.99 for that frozen pizza to undercut the $6.59...walmart can charge $6.99 to undercut the small store's $8.59.
​

I will point to the following post as one way to fight the issue,

That's the problem with monopolies. We could dust off the Sherman anti-trust law which hasn't been used in over 30 years and give small businesses a fighting chance again.

And I will bring up AGAIN the fact that as more money is available to be spent the volume at the local stores will increase also, increasing their profit and thus giving your teen a chance at his part time employment.

But it really is starting to sound as if you already have your mind made up and are in fact missing very little.

 

[MikeCarra]

And what does that have to do with my point. People who think low wage earners deserve more should offer them more in the form of tips

Again, how do I tip the dishwasher at Denny's?

(I know you won't answer that because you don't even understand tips to begin with let alone how to "enact" your own plan to just tip people!)

 

[MikeCarra]

So... try fix bad economic practice with more bad economic practice?, I'll pass on that lol.

The Sherman Anti Trust act was "bad practice"?

Besides, Wal-Mart wouldn't be considered a monopoly. They still have Kmart and Target to compete with them.

This I will agree with. WalMart is working very hard to behave in a monopolistic manner and with their expanse and coverage of the market can make quite onerous requirements of their suppliers (consistent price cuts each year or lose the market altogether...this has driven quite a few American companies either out of business or had to offshore to near slave-labor wage markets). But technically they are not a monopoly.

Minimum wage, and a decent one, is basically a contract we make with our fellow Americans to say "I will pay you a FAIR wage for your efforts in the assurance that I, too, will get a FAIR WAGE for mine."

It's part of being a society.

Many of us have forgotten that.

 

[MikeCarra]

You cite McDonalds as your example, but I'm talking about a small businees where additional labor costs can't be absorbed across a large corporate structure. In the case of a local business where they have a number of older teens and college students, a 40% wage increase directly goes to the bottom line of the business. For a business that has 20 part-time employees working 20 hours per week, this would mean an additional $1200-1300 or so per week, $5000 per month, or $60,000 per year. The reality is the small business will, as much as possible eliminate what they see as unneeded workers and eliminate training and entry level positions.

And I think Stamper is pointing out that this small business will likely benefit from additional sales if their employees (as well as all the other employees in that town) have more money in their pocket.

Remember, most Americans don't "save" so much. The wealthy tend to save their money moreso (invest etc.) but people of lesser means tend to put that money back into the economy relatively quickly.

Perhaps your small business owner scenario is made up of small business owners who DO NOT WANT MORE BUSINESS?

 

[MachZer0]

Again, how do I tip the dishwasher at Denny's?

(I know you won't answer that because you don't even understand tips to begin with let alone how to "enact" your own plan to just tip people!)

Ask the manager at Denny's. Some restaurants today employ tip sharing, a concept I don't like. As far as understanding the tips, I clearly stated that I have worked as a dishwasher for minimum wage ($1.30/hr) and never received a tip and never complained about it.