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Mind vs. Heart (Intelligence vs. Intentions)

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Squee, May 10, 2002.

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  1. Squee

    Squee New Member

    Everyone seems to have there own personal views on Christianity. It doesn't seem like anyone completely agrees with anyone else, even if they agree on most things. There always seems to be at least one difference in perspective. Take Mormonism for instance (since so many people believe there wrong). What matters more, there heart or mind, there intentions or there intelligence? My friend is a Mormon and is in Mexico right now baptising people. He was very pessimistic before Mormonism and was usually depressed. But now he always have a positive attitude and comes off as a very polite person. And he firmly believes that what he is saving people. But if Mormonism is wrong, do you think he will be comdemned just because he wasn't smart enough to pick the right branch?

    Most likely, most people are not ever going to get everything right. But how many things can they get wrong and still be saved? We all know that it is possible for someone to lack the intellect to learn the gospel, as in someone who is mentally challenged. Some humans are just smarter than others, and some humans will just be able to find the truth easier than others. So where do you draw the line?

    Intelligence is a spectrum. There isn't just handicapped people and non-handicapped people. Some people suffer a lot of brain damage, while others suffer a small amount. Some people are incredibly intelligent while others have a hard time cathcing on to things and are extremely gullible.

    And also, what about people who didn't get to read the bible until they were about to die. Most likely they will have more wrong beliefs than someone who has read it all there life. This lack of time may end up causing them to have a completely wrong perspective on things. They may have been better off just not ever receiving the bible so that they have the excuse of "I never even knew it existed". A missionary who gives an old guy a bible who has never seen one, may end up making things worse for him.

    To help sum things up.

    Can someone with a strong heart but a weak mind still go to heaven?

    How much can your beliefs stray from what is true before your intentions to do what you feel God wants you to do mean nothing?

    Do you think the less intelligent you are the more your beliefs can stray from what is true?

    Do you think the less time you have had to study the bible the more you beliefs can stray from what is true?

    And if you barelly recieved the knowledge of Christ before you died and rejected it. Do you think they may get another chance? And if not, would it be better to just let them die without knowledge of Christ just to be safe.

    Ok I think those were all the questions on my mind. :confused:
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  2. chuck

    chuck New Member

    ""Can someone with a strong heart but a weak mind still go to heaven?""

    Sure the bible even tells us about it:
    -- New King James
    Hebrews 8:10-11 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days,'' says the Lord, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

    Squee built into everyone of us is the ability to know and accept the truth. Its something God said He would put within us not something that we ourselves would have to find. I believe we need to accept that truth but in whatever way God reveals it He does.

    ""How much can your beliefs stray from what is true before your intentions to do what you feel God wants you to do mean nothing?""

    -- New King James
    2 Corinthians 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.

    If a person believes that God is who He saids He is, will God lead that person astray?

    -- New King James
    Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.

    There are many things that seem right to us and alot of us follow these ways but they are not truth and as His words say they lead to death.

    ""Do you think the less intelligent you are the more your beliefs can stray from what is true?""

    To be honest I think "OUR" intelligents is what leads us away from God. See remember proverbs up there and the influence of satan on this earth. But more importian what does God's word say about man's intellect:

    -- New King James
    1 Corinthians 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

    -- New King James
    1 Corinthians 3:18-19 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness'';

    The bible tells us exactly what to do for wisdom:

    -- New King James
    James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

    ""Do you think the less time you have had to study the bible the more you beliefs can stray from what is true?""

    That depends on the meaning of your question. I know that we need to be meditating on Him all the time we need to study His word and pray and seeks His wisdom in all things, but the amount of time it takes for a person to study? If you read even one verse couldn't God use that verse throughout the day to reveil to you things you need to know and understand?

    ""And if you barelly recieved the knowledge of Christ before you died and rejected it. Do you think they may get another chance? And if not, would it be better to just let them die without knowledge of Christ just to be safe.""

    What is the knowledge of Christ?
    Look at the thief on the cross how much studying how much knowledge did he have of Christ?

    Squee you have great questions and I my no means above am trying to say what I believe is the "gospel" truth I just wanted to share alittle of how I came to believe what I do about my Savior. To be honest is is all coming through my relationship with Him and in that relationship is where I am seeming to get my wisdom understanding and knowledge about Him and myself also.

    Keep asking the questions!
    God Bless
  3. Squee

    Squee New Member

    Will do.

    Thanks for the replies! :)
  4. MissytheButterfly

    MissytheButterfly Back and Better than EVER!

    All I can say is this old cliche' that goes, "The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions."
  5. Stephen

    Stephen Member

    >"The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions."<

    Should that not be, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"?

    It brings to mind another adage, anyway: 'The good is the enemy of the best.'

  6. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    I sure hope so. I also hope it goes the other way. :)

    I think very, very, far. We all make errors, all the time, and I think God forgives them all. On the one hand, I like to think God won't let me err horribly... but for a hundred years or more, Christians believed that importing slaves from Africa was within God's will. He's pretty much willing to let you make your own mistakes.

    I hope not. :) I think it's more complicated; it's about intent, and exposure to the truth, and how you handle possibilities. I think open-mindedness is a good trait, even though you may be wrong, because at least you're *accepting* the possibility that a given belief is wrong.

    Heh. The last one is tricky. My thinking is, if you turn on the TV, and some guy is talking about this invisible "God" whom he says will take him away unless you and your friends send in $8 million... If you reject whatever he's talking about, you're nowhere near rejecting God. If what you reject is a falsehood, then you're not rejecting God, or Christ. And if you don't understand my attempt to explain God, and you believe I'm saying something else, and reject it... I don't think you've rejected God, you've just recognized that I can't talk straight. :)
  7. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

    United States
    As far as salvation goes, neither. God deciding to regenerate someone and give them eternal life is not based on anything good, be it heart or mind, that we could ever do. The truth of the matter is that there is no good in us to begin with anyway. Therefore, apart from God, no one can do anything righteous or truly good. Our salvation is an unmerited gift from God. It is unmerited because prior to getting it no one had done anything to deserve it.

    After we are saved our obedience to God's Word is not an issue of salvation but rather sanctification. Being conformed to the image of Christ is a life long process marked by some minor successes, many mistakes and, hopefully, a lot of growth in our spiritual maturity. It's not about making mistakes that makes the difference in God's love for His children. He loves His children. Period. He doesn't stop loving them. Children don't earn their parents love. Their parents love them before they are ever born, before they have ever done anything right or wrong. That will never change. God's love for us will never stop. He will bring about things in our lives that help us to mature. Sometimes we will think these things are bad even though, in God's eyes, the situation is good because it is meant to conform us.

    This, again, is not a salvation issue. However, your friend is saving no one by performing the ritual of baptism. Only God can save. If He feels that God has called him to be a minister of the faith and help people learn about God then he should do that.

    God is much bigger than any mistake we can make. We can never be outside of the Will of God whether we're saved or not. All things that happen, happen because it was God's will. If your friend is involved in the Morman church then that's where God wants him. I could not tell you if that was for his benefit or anothers. But, if your friend truly loves God, then God will not allow him to be lost.

    Apparantly we could get everything wrong and still be saved. That was the case with everyone who was ever saved. Everything an unsaved person ever does is sinful. It's sinful because the motivation for everthing they do is self. Once God rescues us from that bondage we are able to start living for others.

    Just as I said earlier that it isn't about what we do to deserve salvation, neither is it about what we don't do. Our salvation is given to us based on God's Will not our own. It's for His purpose, not ours.

    This is not going to work. Claiming ignorance is not going to save anyone. There are no excuses.


    For a Christian, it will never get this far. God is faithful to complete the good work he started in us (Phil 1:6).


    Before a person is saved their very nature is to sin. Once God saves a person they are compelled to be His disciple because of His love for us (2 Cor 5:14).


    What is safe about going to hell? Everyone is accountable, whether they are saved or not.

    Just remember, God does not leave things up to chance. He is in charge of when we are born, when we are reborn, how we are sanctified and when we die. Don't worry about what if's that God already has taken care of. If God means for something to happen, it does. If it's not God's will that something happen, it doesn't.

    God bless.
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