mind and heart disagree

[Katie7725]

hmmm, i have seen no undeniable proof in any form.

 

[Katie7725]

and I would rather be in hell than be with a god that punishes someone for not knowing the unknowable.

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

and I would rather be in hell than be with a god that punishes someone for not knowing the unknowable.

The Holy Spirit within makes all things knowable.

The person that resists receiving the Spirit puts themselves toward hell

 

[Peso]

Here is my take on it for what it is worth.

I grew up believing in Jesus and spent a lot my life going to church, doing the "christian" things, but one day, I realized I really had no clue about what I believed, only what I was told I was to believe, and for a long time (many, many years), I rejected the faith. I still read the Bible from time to time searching for answers, but I really had no faith in anything.

However, eventually (and not too long ago), I started really looking at the state of the world and the state of mankind, and not just now, but throughout the world's history, and I said to myself "if Jesus isn't our savior, and the world has no savior, we sure could use one." So, I started reading the Bible with respect to what it had to say about Jesus, and to me, it appeared that He had come to restore order and a reconciliation with God.

Now I don't pretend to understand everything in the Bible. A lot of things I read I just really don't get, so I may be somewhat agnostic myself, but I lean toward believing because as I said, it began to make sense to me. Even if I am wrong, it gives me hope in what otherwise seems a world gone wrong, and I have a 50-50 shot, so what is the harm.

Anyhow, this is a decision I have made over the past few years, and it has nothing to do with my emotions or whether or not I feel or sense God's presence. I believe because, after a lot of contemplation, for me, it finally started to make sense.

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

. . .So, I started reading the Bible with respect to what it had to say about Jesus, and to me, it appeared that He had come to restore order and a reconciliation with God.

Now I don't pretend to understand everything in the Bible. . . .

The bible will make sense when you have got what it talks about - God's nature within by receiving his Spirit - that's being reconciled to God - becoming his son, what he always wanted for mankind.

Man is mortal (subject to death), God is immortal (not subject to death) . . .

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:6-7)

 

[Katie7725]

good, I hope I go to hell if there is an afterlife that is where my dead atheist father is and he loved me more than anyone

 

[Katie7725]

so the person that accepts reality should be doomed, hmmm pretty stupid theory if you ask me

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

so the person that accepts reality should be doomed, hmmm pretty stupid theory if you ask me

You only know the reality of sin. There is another reality which others know about, but you have to want to see it.

 

[Peso]

so the person that accepts reality should be doomed, hmmm pretty stupid theory if you ask me

I didn’t say anyone was doomed. From my point of view, the whole world and everyone in it would have been doomed without Christ. I certainly have come to believe that I need a savior, and I also believe that savior is Jesus, but as for others, if there is a God (and I believe there is), He would be the one to judge, not me.

I am gonna go out on a limb here, and say that just because people of the Christian faith say you must believe this or that in order to be saved and go to Heaven, my guess is that none of them sit at the council table with God. The God I am coming to know is bigger than our limited understanding, so no one really knows how God will judge and why (not a popular belief with the church, but, oh well). I would think if someone is really worried that you are going to Hell they ought to be praying for you and not making judgments on what you believe and why you believe it.

For me, I believe I need Jesus, but I had to come to that conclusion by myself, and I didn’t come to it, just because I had people telling me I should or I must, so I have no issue with those with disagree.

I hope I was more clear on that this time around.

 

[SonicBOOM]

we say we must "accept Christ" but we say religion can't save us. Yet.... accepting Christ is becoming a Christian and Christianity is a religion. Contradictions enough for you? If accepting the Christian religion is all it took than everyone in the OT would be doomed to hell because they weren't christian... they were Jews. Yet Jews were not only God's chosen people they were also the place where many of the profits came from. David to was Jewish and I find it hard to believe that a man "after God's own heart" goes to hell because he's Jewish. What separates good people and bad people? Not religion! Religion often turns bad people into worse people. Look at 1 John.

1 John 4:7-8 (New International Version)




7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

it doesn't take accepting the Christian faith to be in the right with God. For Jesus says that there will be those who say "lord, lord" and do not enter. Absolutely everywhere the bible says that if we love God and hate our brother we are lying. God and hate can never ever go together. Being born again is being born in love. It takes more than religion. Jesus also says to the religious leaders of his day that the sinners were entering the kingdom ahead of them! Why? because these so-called "sinners" loved.

 

[onshye1]

katie,

one of the hardest parts about being christian is accepting that loved ones who died and did not accept Jesus may be in hell. but the bible says that Jesus said those who follow him do so because they love him and love the truth. It may be painful. But if it is reality then we have no choice but to accept that it is true.

If your father was really in hell don't you think that he would give everything to just come back on earth for even a minute to warn you not to go there? Do you think he would regret having not taught you that Jesus is the one true god?

In the bible was a story about a rich man who died and went to hell. He was tormented in the fire and called our to Jesus to let him go back to the earth for just a moment so he can warn his family members, for he did not want them to get the same fate. Jesus said, they have preachers and prophets and helpers to tell them about the gospel. If they will not accept the gospel of christ, neither will they believe it even if a dead man rose from the grave.

can you believe it? Jesus said if you will not accept him and the gospel, you will not accept it, period. No matter how many people tries to convince you, how much evidence, or even if someone rose from the grave you would not be convinced!!

you can scoff and say "well when someone DOES rise from the grave, I'll see about that."

but you see, someone already did. Jesus rose from the grave. Do you believe him now? still not really huh. What about the rest of the world? naaaahh. The bible is right. Even if someone rose from the grave, if you won't believe you won't believe. And Jesus is proof of that.

 

[EternallyPierced]

Hi MLH I'm glad you posted, that in itself speaks volumes. Whether your believe it or not God is working in you this very instant. You didn't come to these forums by accident

I'll do my best not to go spouting Bible verses (it becomes second nature after you really get into it) so bear with me if I do. You said that you had read some of the Bible earlier, just out of curiosity, how much? I haven't read it nearly as much as I should. To be honest, I haven't read all of it or possibly even half of it. It's crazy how you can read any other book without a problem but when it comes to the Bible it takes all the effort you can muster just to keep turning the page. It's like there's some force trying to hold you back, but to avoid getting sidetracked we'll talk about that later if you like.

I'm not going to assume that I can explain the entirety of Christianity or God in a nutshell in one post. When God decides to fully reveal Himself is completely up to Him, all I can do is try my best to point you in the right direction. So I hope you don't mind if I ask some questions to get a better understanding of things. I'll number them to make it easier for the both of us

1. Do you go to church or have you gone before?
2. Do you believe in Heaven or Hell?
3. Do you believe Jesus died for you?
4. Do you believe He rose from the dead?
5. Do you feel like there's something missing in your life but you just can't quite put your finger on it?
6. I saw that you said you've prayed before, did you speak from your heart or was what you thought He wanted to hear. Did you expect Him to answer?
7. What's your favorite flavor of ice cream? (mines chocolate chip cookie dough or maybe mint choc. chip)

Sorry if that's a lot of questions but it hard to address a problem like this without background info Thanks for your time reading this and I look forward to your response

P.S. Katie, or anyone else who feels the desire may respond to this post as well

 

[SonicBOOM]

katie,

one of the hardest parts about being christian is accepting that loved ones who died and did not accept Jesus may be in hell. but the bible says that Jesus said those who follow him do so because they love him and love the truth. It may be painful. But if it is reality then we have no choice but to accept that it is true.

If your father was really in hell don't you think that he would give everything to just come back on earth for even a minute to warn you not to go there? Do you think he would regret having not taught you that Jesus is the one true god?

In the bible was a story about a rich man who died and went to hell. He was tormented in the fire and called our to Jesus to let him go back to the earth for just a moment so he can warn his family members, for he did not want them to get the same fate. Jesus said, they have preachers and prophets and helpers to tell them about the gospel. If they will not accept the gospel of christ, neither will they believe it even if a dead man rose from the grave.

can you believe it? Jesus said if you will not accept him and the gospel, you will not accept it, period. No matter how many people tries to convince you, how much evidence, or even if someone rose from the grave you would not be convinced!!

you can scoff and say "well when someone DOES rise from the grave, I'll see about that."

but you see, someone already did. Jesus rose from the grave. Do you believe him now? still not really huh. What about the rest of the world? naaaahh. The bible is right. Even if someone rose from the grave, if you won't believe you won't believe. And Jesus is proof of that.

death is a very touchy subject and I think you guys are kind of being really insensitive about this. Look I know what the bible says about this kind of stuff but honestly consider what your saying. The message isn't that those who don't find God go to hell it's that those who "have the Son have life". I found this true in my own life. Not every reference about life and death is eternal. Religion can't save you and as I've said before Christianity is a religion. Though my earlier post was ignored so I think I'm gonna stop here as I'm sure for some reason you guys don't like what I'm saying.

 

[Katie7725]

wow masked chris, you are full of awesome wisdom, i love chatting with you

 

[hogndog]

wow masked chris, you are full of awesome wisdom, i love chatting with you

I see your 19 at that age I was how do you say 1/2 crazy. My mind refused to stay focused, wandering from one book to the next in search, ya but in search of what? I wasn't even sure of that, trans-indental meditation, reincarnation, buddism, hare krishna, just a few of the false religions being passed out in the 60's. Then in 1972 at age of 24 I found Christ. Life can be full of confusion or full of direction, the choice is ours, always has been. If you keep looking as I did, you "will" find him. And when you do, you will know what i'm talkiing about.

In Christ my king,
Lee

 

[UnitynLove]

It is written "The Lord knows those who are His"

 

[Akathist]

This thread is not about recovery or trying to get or receive help. Instead there is a debate going on here.

So, temporarily at least, I am closing this thread so that we can focus on being a help to each other instead of debating each other.