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Microsoft finally ... promising support for graphics and style sheet standards.

poretz

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I thought the following may be of some interest to those who still use "IE". Of course while they will make an effort to bring IE up to par with Opera and Firefox by adding compliance to standards and tabbed browsing, you can be sure they will do nothing to make it as easy as it is in Firefox to protect your privacy from invasive "web bugs", cookies, popups, and advertisements. That would likely chap the hide of those that sit on the board of directors who benefit from those features being peculiarly absent or obfuscated at best.

"Microsoft finally told Web developers what they've wanted to hear for years, promising support for graphics and style sheet standards.

In a blog entry posted Friday, a member of Microsoft's Internet Explorer development team said the company plans to support key elements of World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) recommendations Portable Network Graphics (PNG), an image format, and Cascading Style Sheet (CSS), a Web page styling standard.

"We have certainly heard the clear feedback from the Web design community," Chris Wilson, lead program manager for the Web platform in IE, said in reference to support for the PNG standard. "Our first and most important goal with our Cascading Style Sheet support is to remove the major inconsistencies so that Web developers have a consistent set of functionality on which they can rely."

While Microsoft and critics of its Web browser have focused most of their attention on IE's security liabilities, the issue of standards support remains crucial to Web developers.

Glitches in IE's standards support mean that developers have to code separately for IE and for browsers that hew more closely to the standards. IE enjoys about 90 percent browser market share despite losing some points to the Mozilla Foundation's open-source Firefox browser.

Last month, Microsoft was reported to have been planning better PNG and CSS support, but Wilson's blog entry Friday is the first public word to developers that the next version of IE--pegged as a security-focused release--would feature these improvements.

One standards proponent and Microsoft competitor said he looked forward to the proof of IE 7's standards support in the new release.

"The blog says they have fixed a few bugs. Great, but we expect more than that," said Opera Software's chief technology officer, Hakon Lie, who co-authored CSS. "The big question is: Will IE 7 pass the Acid2 test? I proposed the Acid2 challenge in a CNET article, and it has later been published by the Web Standards Project."

Other improvements said to be on tap for IE 7, currently code-named Rincon, include tabbed browsing and support for IDN (Internationalized Domain Names).

For years, developers have complained about IE's CSS bugs, and have called IE's rendering of certain PNG images "ugly."
..."

(see complete article here)
 

rdale

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poretz said:
I thought the following may be of some interest to those who still use "IE". Of course while they will make an effort to bring IE up to par with Opera and Firefox by adding compliance to standards and tabbed browsing, you can be sure they will do nothing to make it as easy as it is in Firefox to protect your privacy from invasive "web bugs", cookies, popups, and advertisements. That would likely chap the hide of those that sit on the board of directors who benefit from those features being peculiarly absent or obfuscated at best.
It is progress, and about time at that. Now, if they have a clue regarding security as viewed from the end users perspective... IE7 will be a standalone product. Meaning no explorer dependencies, able to install on anything 'Windows' - W2k and up at least... maybe w98. If not, they are still smoking horse-feathers, meaning that they in fact have not got the clue yet...

We'll see...
 
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MusicalProgrammer

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SirKenin said:
I noticed the marketshare IE has... 90%. As if that doesn't shoot holes in a few of the arguments I have seen in here.

Market share is hardly an indicator of quality, however. ;)
 
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SirKenin

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MusicalProgrammer said:
Market share is hardly an indicator of quality, however. ;)

Quality is not necessarily the argument I was thinking of, as quality is merely measured subjectively and the achieved value is not worth the powder to blow it to h-e-double hockey sticks. :p
 
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MusicalProgrammer

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SirKenin said:
Quality is not necessarily the argument I was thinking of, as quality is merely measured subjectively and the achieved value is not worth the powder to blow it to h-e-double hockey sticks. :p

True enough. In any case, the bottom line of said companies hoarding market shares isn't hurting. :doh:
 
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SirKenin

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They aren't hoarding anything. Let's get serious. Mozilla just isn't up to the task. The fact that they have less than 10% of the market is partial testimony to this fact. You have a choice. See the web as it was meant to be seen without adding yet another browser to your computer and complicating the issue, or use mozilla. It's plain and simple. Most people opt for taking the easiest road out. The smart ones take the simple extra step of adding SP2 and teatimer to the mix. All are happy.

Who makes up the extra 10%? All of the other browsers combined used by rebels without a cause (this includes the majority of linux users. It is so cool to flip the bird at MS, don't you know), kids who want bragging rights in forums (we see it in here all the time) and the occasional paranoid dellusionist that wants to be able to browse through porn without getting stung and not knowing how to adequately protect himself any other way. All of these at the expense of not being able to access certain content and viewing some pages incorrectly, then complaining about it. That, or denying the problem exists or placing the blame on Microsoft.

Heh.

Can I get down off my soapbox now?
 
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SirKenin

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Oh, there was one other point that I was trying to make. Kids in here were complaining about webmasters only coding for IE and that's why they couldn't view the pages incorrectly. Well Duh. IE owns 90% of the market share. If you were a webmaster, what would your target audience be? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
 
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MusicalProgrammer

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I respectfully disagree. IE holds 90% of the market share largely because it's built into Windows, which the vast majority of PCs run. Most of these PCs are owned by the average ignorant home user. People are either too lazy/not knowledgeable enough/don't have broadband to obtain a different browser. IE is the easy/default way out.

Really, the only thing that works exclusively in IE is ASP. The only thing I don't like about Microsoft is the fact that it has become such a giant that it can afford to extend its tendrils into virtually every single facet of the industry. Some might view this as a good thing, however, as it provides more of a standard. (I'll give M$ the kudos that .NET was a great invention)

Maybe I'm a hypocrite; after all, I am an MCP and am working towards more M$ certs, simply because that's what we use at work. I'm just all for free market competition, whether it's Intel vs. AMD, NVidia vs. ATI, or M$ vs. everyone.

The thing that I find that is sad is that 3 out of 4 average users have no idea what I'm talking about when I mention "Firefox."

Mozilla isn't up to the task simply because it doesn't have the means to market itself against Goliath. It would be like me trying to run a presidential campaign using my annual salary for funds. (ok, maybe not that extreme :D)

I agree with you on the point that many think "flipping the bird at MS" is often the "cool" thing to do, and that there are indeed rebels without a cause.
 
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rdale

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SirKenin said:
... Let's get serious ...
Internet Explorer 6x
http://secunia.com/product/11/#advisories
Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.x with all vendor patches installed and all vendor workarounds applied, is currently affected by one or more Secunia advisories rated Highly critical

This is based on the most severe Secunia advisory, which is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database. Go to Unpatched/Patched list below for details.

Currently, 19 out of 80 Secunia advisories, is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.


Firefox
http://secunia.com/product/4227/#advisories
Mozilla Firefox 1.x with all vendor patches installed and all vendor workarounds applied, is currently affected by one or more Secunia advisories rated Less critical

This is based on the most severe Secunia advisory, which is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database. Go to Unpatched/Patched list below for details.

Currently, 4 out of 15 Secunia advisories, is marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.


Opera 8
http://secunia.com/product/4932/#advisories
The Secunia database currently contains 0 Secunia advisories marked as "Unpatched", which affects Opera 8.x.

Opera 7
http://secunia.com/product/761/#advisories
The Secunia database currently contains 0 Secunia advisories marked as "Unpatched", which affects Opera 7.x.
SirKenin said:
Can I get down off my soapbox now?
:thumbsup: I honestly do not understand your devotion to IE. Look, I'm not saying "don't use Microsoft products", but they at best, must be tamed/restrained. Blind devotion is dangerous in the hands of an uninformed mind. Don't want to assume that you are trolling for a scrap either, but... I simply don't understand. :scratch:

:)
 
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poretz

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"I can do that better than you, but I don't want to"...

I find it interesting that Microsoft is bringing their browser up to be more like Mozilla/Opera than the other way around. Why is that? Could it be that they just can't tolerate the latest trend?

OSNews.com - Exploring the Future of Computing
"OneStat.com today reported ... Mozilla increased 0.24 percent since February 2005. Microsoft's Internet Explorer ... is 0.65 percent less as at the end of February."
http://www.osnews.com/

[font=arial,helvetica]Firefox nears 50 Million Downloads
[/font]Posted by Zonk on Tuesday April 26, @05:32PM
from the that's-a-lot-of-foxen dept.
bluephone writes "Firefox hit 49,000,000 downloads last night. Today, as we approach 50,000,000, SpreadFirefox is offering prizes for photographic proof of your most amazing spectacles to celebrate. To quote: 'We have a handful of unique prizes that you won't find anywhere else, and we're asking you to do one simple thing to claim one: impress us. As we drive toward 50 million downloads, do something so cool, so unusual and so spectacular to spread Firefox that we can't help but scurry around the Mozilla Foundation to tell every one.' But you don't have long. The Infocraft Firefox Counter shows just over 800,000 downloads left at the time of this submission!"
http://slashdot.org/index.pl?issue=20050426
 
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superfly

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i still don't get you... please, please, please, pretty please tell me all the firefox flaws you can. you keep on threatening, but then never produce anything. those of use who are firefox or opera fans all go to secunia, the place regarded as the authority on security, and quote you stats, but you never answer to those stats. answer now please.
 
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poretz

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superfly said:
i still don't get you... please, please, please, pretty please tell me all the firefox flaws you can. you keep on threatening, but then never produce anything. those of use who are firefox or opera fans all go to secunia, the place regarded as the authority on security, and quote you stats, but you never answer to those stats. answer now please.
Hey superfly thanks for the prodding. I finally took you up on your encouragement and went over to the Secunia website to look into these things further and found it to be very informative indeed. So here for everyones viewing pleasure and convenience are the URL's:

IE:
http://secunia.com/product/11/

Mozilla Firefox:
http://secunia.com/product/4227/

Have a great day!
 
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poretz

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Hey look Internet Explorer is getting 'tabs' just like Firefox and Opera!

[font=arial,helvetica][/font]
[font=arial,helvetica]IE7 Will Have Tabbed Browsing[/font]

Posted by timothy on Tuesday May 17, @08:51AM
from the sir-your-numbers-are-slipping dept.
loconet writes that early yesterday morning, "Dean Hachamovitch, IE product unit manager, confirmed that IE7, like Opera and Firefox first did years ago, will have tabbed browsing as one of its new features. Asa Dotzler,from Mozilla, points out that Dean reminds IE users who have not upgraded to XP that tabbed browsing can be added to IE through 3rd-party add-ons." cryptoz adds a link to this InformationWeek story which says that the tabs will be very "'basic' due to fears from Microsoft that tabbed browsing might scare off too many users. The feature is only being included because IE is slipping in the browser share market."
[reference]
 
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WalksWithChrist

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This is truly sad. LOL So how many *years* behind the curve will that leave MS until IE 7 hits the market...if it ever does? Like I've been saying, market share is a factor, of course, but it shouldn't be. IE is a proprietary browser owned by one company who thinks its standards are everybody's. Talk about putting your eggs in one basket...
 
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