"Microevolution"

[BananaSlug]

One thing that bugs me about YEC's is how some believe in "microevolution" but not "macroevolution." A field mouse species changing fur color to match its environment is fine but an ape to a human is blasphemy.
Hate to say it, but if you're a YEC and you accept "microevolution" you're already going against God's word. He created everything in distinct "kinds," in other words, the chihuahua and great dane were with Adam and Eve.
Even with "microevolution" small changes over time are BIG CHANGES. If I move an inch a day I'm really not getting anywhere but over a few years I'm very far from my starting point. Here's an example:
1. Hairy, walking on all fours tool using ape-creature.
2. Hairy, walking on all fours tool using ape-creature that can stand up for a brief period of time.
3. Hairy, walking on all fours tool using ape-creature that can walk on two legs for a brief period of time.
3. Hairy, walking on all fours tool using ape-creature that can walk on two legs for a longer period of time.
10. Hairy, upright tool using ape-creature.
11. Hairy, upright tool using ape-creature that scavenges meat.
11. Hairy, upright ape-creature that scavenges meat with more sophisticated tools.
20. Hairy, upright ape-creature with sophisticated tools that uses rudimentary language.
30. Less hairy, upright less-apelike-creature with sophisticated tools that uses more sophisticated language.
50. Relatively hairless, upright less-apelike-creature with very sophisticated tools and very sophisticated language.

Small steps can still take you from Maine to California...

 

[Allegory]

k.

 

[monkeypsycho62]

k.

Great response!!!
*facepalm*

 

[AV1611VET]

A field mouse species changing fur color to match its environment is fine but an ape to a human is blasphemy.

Yup -- Adam and Eve were not mutant copy-errors made in the image of God.

 

[Greg1234]

One thing that bugs me about YEC's is how some believe in "microevolution" but not "macroevolution." A field mouse species changing fur color to match its environment is fine but an ape to a human is blasphemy.

As much as the "small changes" in the speed settings on your fan will eventually turn it into a formula one race car.

Or "small changes" in muscle will eventually turn you into a forklift.

Adaptation is an intelligent, designed feature. And the same principle employed in the fan, in muscle, is applied in the DNA bio-computer.

The ability for designed structures to make minor adaptations is nothing new, its presentation as Darwinism notwithstanding.

 

[USincognito]

How about whale evolution using living analogues?

Terrestrial mammal adapted to water - polar bear.
Terrestrial mammal that functions better in water - otter.
Aquatic mammal that can still function on land - seal.
Aquatic mammal that stays mainly in the shallows - manatee.
Aquatic mammal that is adapted to the deep ocean - whale.

As much as the "small changes" in the speed settings on your fan will eventually turn it into a formula one race car.

Or "small changes" in muscle will eventually turn you into a forklift.

Adaptation is an intelligent, designed feature. And the same principle employed in the fan, in muscle, is applied in the DNA bio-computer.

The ability for designed structures to make minor adaptations is nothing new, its presentation as Darwinism notwithstanding.

Interesting. We've just seen an example of a major change evolving a solid argument into a straw man.

 

[Tomatoman]

Yup -- Adam and Eve were not mutant copy-errors made in the image of God.

Correct. Nothing has ever been made in the image of god.

I still find it odd that you have no problem thinking of yourself as an alien specially designed by a cruel, invisible, megalomaniac ogre to worship him forever, but have a problem with being a result of gene mutations and natural selection. Must be something to do with your sense of self-importance I suppose.

 

[Upisoft]

Must be something to do with your sense of self-importance I suppose.

It's called "pride" they say.

 

[futzman]

Good post BananaSlug. However, I suspect that the Creationist definition of "micro-evolution" would be defined as,

Micro-evolution (n): Any change we can observe happening now. Contrast with "Macro-evolution".

So, if you actually were to observe one population of animals diverging morphologically versus another, and even unable to reproduce, that would have to be micro-evolution. Therefore, macro-evolution never happens. Because, of course, if we can see it happening, it is not macro-evolution, it is micro-evolution. Simple, huh?

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

As much as the "small changes" in the speed settings on your fan will eventually turn it into a formula one race car.

Holy hell!!!!

A fan has DNA and is able to reproduce therefore meaning that it is subject to the same evolutionary forces as biological organisms making it a suitable subject for comparison!!

You heard it here first folks! From our resident 747-obsessed Greg1234!! Quick Greg! Notify the Nobel Committee before someone passes off your discovery as their own work!

 

[Greg1234]

Holy hell!!!!

A fan has DNA and is able to reproduce therefore meaning that it is subject to the same evolutionary forces as biological organisms making it a suitable subject for comparison!!

You heard it here first folks! From our resident 747-obsessed Greg1234!! Quick Greg! Notify the Nobel Committee before someone passes off your discovery as their own work!

Recognition analysis and implementation. The mechanism at work. There's nothing needed to stop the fan from becoming a race car because adaptation is designed and it is not infinite.

Nothing needed to stop a man from becoming a bio forklift because muscle growth is not designed to persist indefinitely.

In bacteria we find the same principle employed, and bacteria will remain bacteria without becoming men.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Recognition analysis and implementation. The mechanism at work. There's nothing needed to stop the fan from becoming a race car because adaptation is designed and it is not infinite.

Nothing needed to stop a man from becoming a bio forklift because muscle growth is not designed to persist indefinitely.

In bacteria we find the same principle employed, and bacteria will remain bacteria without becoming men.

Why would bacteria become men? Bacteria have effectively proliferated and exist just about everywhere on earth. Whereas man is only capable of inhabiting about 20% of it. Remember, it's all about the struggle for survival.

BTW, I would find whatever teacher/pastor told you that men are capable of becoming forklifts, and slap them across the cheek, and while you're at it, find whoever told them that, and slap them too. Do this now while there's still hope for you!

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

Recognition analysis and implementation. The mechanism at work. There's nothing needed to stop the fan from becoming a race car because adaptation is designed and it is not infinite.

Nothing needed to stop a man from becoming a bio forklift because muscle growth is not designed to persist indefinitely.

In bacteria we find the same principle employed, and bacteria will remain bacteria without becoming men.

OK so Greg1234 basically reaffirms his position that fans have DNA and reproduce and are therefore influenced by the same evolutionary forces as biological organisms making them suitable for comparisons! Furthermore he has now discovered that biological organisms are able to turn into forklifts! Amazing!

What was your methodology? Could I have a copy of the article you're going to submit to the various journals you're interested in publishing in? With this sort of incredible discovery you could have your pick.

 

[AV1611VET]

One thing that bugs me about YEC's is how some believe in "microevolution" but not "macroevolution." A field mouse species changing fur color to match its environment is fine but an ape to a human is blasphemy.

As much as the "small changes" in the speed settings on your fan will eventually turn it into a formula one race car.

OK so Greg1234 basically reaffirms his position that fans have DNA and reproduce and are therefore influenced by the same evolutionary forces as biological organisms making them suitable for comparisons!

Are you being facetious, KIP?

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

Are you being facetious, KIP?

Clearly Greg1234 thinks it is logical and acceptable to compare a fan becoming a Formula1 car to the evolution of biological organisms. This must mean fans have DNA and reproduce which is the only way that they could be influenced by the same evolutionary forces. He is making the comparison between evolution and the fan-F1 car thing so I assume he has discovered the fan's DNA and reproduction cycle through some sort of methodology.

Either that or he is crazy.

I don't mind folks believing what they believe I just don't like it when folks misrepresent something with idiotically erroneous comparisons. Unless you're trying to argue that Greg1234 comparing fan-F1 car transformations with evolution is justified? If that is what you're saying I'd ask you to please show me the research paper you guys have put together that demonstrates the fan's DNA and it's reproductive cycle.

 

[AV1611VET]

Clearly Greg1234 thinks it is logical and acceptable to compare a fan becoming a Formula1 car to the evolution of biological organisms.

I agree with Greg 100%.

A fan is to a Formula One racing car what microevolution is to macroevolution.

In other words, a fan will never power a Formula One racing car, and microevolution will never lead to macroevolution.

 

[Tiberius]

As usual, AV, you ideas about what evolution is are way off the mark.

 

[Gracchus]

Yup -- Adam and Eve were not mutant copy-errors made in the image of God.

Is the image of a thing the thing itself? Maybe, God is more than just human.
I know that galls you. You want God to be your valet, your yes-man. If he won't do it your way he will have to "Take a hike!"
What will be left of you, I wonder, when all your delusions have burnt away.

 

[Gracchus]

As usual, AV, you ideas about what evolution is are way off the mark.

They are less off the mark than his ideas about God!

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

I agree with Greg 100%.

A fan is to a Formula One racing car what microevolution is to macroevolution.

In other words, a fan will never power a Formula One racing car, and microevolution will never lead to macroevolution.

Like I said you therefore clearly believe that a fan has DNA and reproduces. Please provide the study that demonstrates this.

Either demonstrate it or you're being illogical. Either demonstrate it or a fan cannot be exposed to the same evolutionary forces that a biological organism is and therefore the comparison is idiotic... something a human being with Down Syndrome would find very compelling but that anybody with a functioning brain would dismiss as an invalid comparison.