MGTOW & WGTOW

[seekingmuch]

A friend asked, "If you had to do over again, would you have married one of those woman that came with 2-4 kids when you were in your 20s/30s?" (Honestly, that's what was available to me 90+% of the time).

I did not think about, especially after a ran into a guy a few years ago that got stuck with child support for 2 kids that weren't even his, and said, "Nope."

I had the sex in my 20s & 30s have yet to this day wondered why men got married for it alone, but a lot do.

Is single better?

Before you answer, remember, if you marry, you have a 50% chance of getting divorced (and it is getting higher than ever--some say 75% in big cities) and you might have to raise kids by yourself, or pay alimony and/or child support for years and years. And, yes, if he gets the kids, you are going to be paying, ladies. Nothing wrong with child support. But, it is a burden.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Wouldn't recommend it.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

single is better if you can't handle the responsibilities and requirements of married life.

 

[redblue22]

I always wondered why drug-addiction recovering girls were so very picky.

 

[Sir Robbins]

I would stay single and plan on doing so for life. Medical reasons and some bitterness is to blame for my choices. MGTOW is something I've found to exist so men can have a group to relate to. It's why most every cult, gang, group, church, ect form. People have a desire to belong and when there's Men who Go Their Own Way, they don't fit into those social "norms" thus the formation of said group. I could care less to be apart of something like that but I certainly fit the bill

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

I don't recommend that
I can't even defend that
Somebody need to amend that

 

[Saucy]

I wouldn't mind dating a single mother. I'd be extra careful for the sake of the kids. I already get called 'uncle' by everyone else's kids, even those who aren't related to me, so it wouldn't take me long to love the kids of the person I would want to be with.

 

[Niels]

It can be good for single men and women to "go their own way" when the alternative is worse. Do that until you find the right person. In a very real sense, I'm already going my own way. I am not, however, a MGTOW.


A couple of the problems I have with the MGTOW movement:

- The concept of the elusive NAWALT (not all women are like that). As if most women are one big army of clones, with maybe one or two who "aren't like that". People are people, and what most of them do is none of my business. In terms of my personal life, it doesn't matter what percentage of people do or don't do. I date individuals, not a collective. Of course there are trends, but dwelling on the negative is wasted energy. The woman I settle down with will be somebody I like enough that the pros of being together outweigh the cons, and she'll feel the same about me. She won't be a NAWALT or an AWALT. She'll just be Laura, or whatever her name happens to be.

- Deliberately using women for sex without commitment. The idea being that the women are just using them for their money... so fair's fair, right? Nope. This doesn't help make the dating scene a better place. It makes the kind of scene that results in more MGTOWs, and more single moms. To hear some of those guys talk, it seems to me like they made their own mess. Let them lay in it. Lots of dysfunction to go around.


That's partly why I'm going my own way. I've seen enough functional relationships to consider them realistic, and I'm well aware that decisions come with consequences. It isn't because of AWALTS, NAWALTS, monkey-branching, or whatever their buzzwords happen to be. That stuff really isn't on my wavelength, or really even any of my business. I have better things to do with my time.

 

[redblue22]

Women with kids seem to be really picky in who they date.

 

[Desires Light]

A friend asked, "If you had to do over again, would you have married one of those woman that came with 2-4 kids when you were in your 20s/30s?" (Honestly, that's what was available to me 90+% of the time).

I did not think about, especially after a ran into a guy a few years ago that got stuck with child support for 2 kids that weren't even his, and said, "Nope."

I had the sex in my 20s & 30s have yet to this day wondered why men got married for it alone, but a lot do.

Is single better?

Before you answer, remember, if you marry, you have a 50% chance of getting divorced (and it is getting higher than ever--some say 75% in big cities) and you might have to raise kids by yourself, or pay alimony and/or child support for years and years. And, yes, if he gets the kids, you are going to be paying, ladies. Nothing wrong with child support. But, it is a burden.

Ha! What woman could put up with me.

 

[Citanul]

Before you answer, remember, if you marry, you have a 50% chance of getting divorced (and it is getting higher than ever--some say 75% in big cities)

Except that it's not possible to remember as there's no evidence to suggest that the divorce rate was ever as high as 50%.

The common statistic that 'half of marriages end in divorce' is bogus

I'm not completely against the idea of dating (and ultimately marrying) someone who already has kids, even though it would probably take a lot for me to consider it. And I think we would have needed to have known each other for some time before it happened - I certainly wouldn't jump straight to dating them if we had only just met.

But my reasons for not wanting to date a single mother have nothing to do with the MGTOW mindset, which appears to be that there's no point in being in a relationship because it's going to end badly. That doesn't appear to be true from the stats or anecdotal evidence, and I think it creates something of a self-fulfilling prophecy as if you go into a relationship expecting it to fail, chances are that it will.

I also don't like is how MGTOW seems to put all the blame on women. While it's true that there are women who behave in the way that MGTOW depicts them, blaming the woman removes any responsibility that the man might have had for the events that caused the relationship to end. I can understand men giving up on relationships because of bad experiences, but some times they're at fault for those bad experiences, which MGTOW doesn't seem to acknowledge.

 

[seekingmuch]

Yeah, it is a complicated question. I hadn't heard of the MGTOW until a month or so ago. The guys I read about had some really bad experiences: divorce and saddled with alimony for a long time, wives cheating on them, etc. Usually you hear it is the women with cheating spouses and feeling betrayed.

It really made me think though. Is it worth it? Am I really missing much? My parents had a horrible marriage so that was my template anyway.

Yes, half of all marriages end in divorce, and they did a poll and a found a strong minority of people, men and women, were not getting married because they were scared of divorce.

I tried online dating and met a lot of bitter women. "Ex-husband cheated on me...." The other wanted George Clooney and rich. Most of them were not realistic.

The reason I had no interest in dating a woman with 2-4 kids was simply, I wanted marriage first. Few guys want to marry into that circumstance I think. It takes a special guy (or a stupid one to do that).

After I read about some guys having to pay child support for kids not even theirs, I'm glad I didn't consider women with kids.

 

[Niels]

Yes, half of all marriages end in divorce, and they did a poll and a found a strong minority of people, men and women, were not getting married because they were scared of divorce.

I tried online dating and met a lot of bitter women. "Ex-husband cheated on me...." The other wanted George Clooney and rich. Most of them were not realistic.

The reason I had no interest in dating a woman with 2-4 kids was simply, I wanted marriage first. Few guys want to marry into that circumstance I think. It takes a special guy (or a stupid one to do that).

After I read about some guys having to pay child support for kids not even theirs, I'm glad I didn't consider women with kids.

Roughly half of marriages end in divorce, but the likelihood of an individual getting divorced is substantially less. People who marry multiple times skew the figure. And then there are factors like age at marriage, and education level. The odds of you getting a divorce may actually be more like 20%. The 50% figure is misleading.

Either way, even 20% is still higher than it should be, and the risks are still there. As if the divorce itself isn't bad enough, divorce laws generally favor women. Is it worth the risk? Only you can answer that one for yourself. I'd go for it if I found someone I really gelled with.

If I was a single father, I'd probably be interested in dating single mothers (we'd be like The Brady Bunch). As it stands, however, they aren't on my radar. Nothing against single moms personally. I wish them all the best, but when it comes to dating and marriage I go for women whose life situations are more comparable my own. No kids, never married, etc.

 

[Inkfingers]

Single is better than getting tied to a godless bloodsucker.

 

[JAM2b]

Nothing wrong with child support. But, it is a burden.

This is so offensive and ungodly.

Anyone who sees supporting a child they are responsible for as a burden has no business being in a relationship which could produce a child, or with anyone who already has a child. If you marry someone who has children prior to you getting together, then you are chosing to share the financial responsibility of having a child.

The problem isn't the single parent or the child. The problem is the type of attitude you are putting out there.

Anyone who is paying child support for a child who is not their's either is choosing to or did not pursue the legal means available to prove they have no legal financial obligation. OR.. they chose to adopt the child/children, and then when the marriage fell apart wanted to back out of parenthood, too. Adoption doesn't work that way.

If someone is claiming they are paying child support for a child they should not have to provide for they are A) heartless and irresponsible and B) not telling the whole story.

BTW, are you a man or a woman? You're avatar looks female but you post as if you are male.

 

[JAM2b]

Women with kids seem to be really picky in who they date.

They should be. When kids are involved it is not just about the adults in the relationship. The priority has to be the children's wellbeing until they are independent adults.

 

[JAM2b]

I always wondered why drug-addiction recovering girls were so very picky.

Because they are trying, or want to very badly, or hope someone can help them enough to get them out of drugs and stay out. It is incredibly difficult to leave that lifestyle without changing people, places, and things. They need better people in their lives if they are going to make it.

 

[MehGuy]

Depends what one means by MGTOW, it's not always about abstaining from women. I know plenty of MGTOWs who view Leonardo DiCaprio a MGTOW God. Mainly because he's a man who's in his 40s and abstains from marriages and has short relationships with 20 something year old models. He's certainly not some loser who is throwing his cards away because he can't get women.. just am an who see's little need for long term commitment and putting his assets at risk.

Men should be able to live life as they want, if MGTOW feels right for them they should go ahead. We live in a society that tells women that they should be able to choose whatever path that works for them, yet if men do the same they get vilified.

As for me, I don't consider myself MGTOW. Although I think it's best for most men if they at least wait until their early 30s to marry. Build up capital and value and cash in with younger women.

 

[seekingmuch]

As for me, I don't consider myself MGTOW. Although I think it's best for most men if they at least wait until their early 30s to marry. Build up capital and value and cash in with younger women.

Some in the MGTOW deal (and WGTOW definitely stressed this) also won't marry cause they are scared of having to give up half their stuff if they get unlucky and get divorced. I'm building a successful business and it definitely has been a consideration against marriage. Divorce court totally favors women, and 70% of divorces are initiated by women.

Guys and girls, you would be surprised who is thinking about all that stuff, men and women, and deciding single is better, or living with someone, which I won't do, is the better option. Some won't marry someone that has lots of debt if they are debt-free themselves. And, yeah, male or female, it is smart to do a background check before you tie the knot nowadays.

Don't get me wrong, I think if a woman helped a guy build his career for years (or the opposite), she deserves half.

And, yeah, I have read about guys that got saddled with child support for kids that were not even their kids. When I was considering dating and read that (and asked about it from a divorce lawyer and he said, yeah, in some cases....and, no it was not they adopted the kids), I decided, no single mothers, period.

Miles, my life has been like yours. I think I was just unlucky in the love department. But, at 49, I'm ready just to close the idea and move on with my career that is starting to take off. I've just known a lot of men and women that regret getting married and wonder, really, if I didn't miss a thing.

 

[MehGuy]

Some in the MGTOW deal (and WGTOW definitely stressed this) also won't marry cause they are scared of having to give up half their stuff if they get unlucky and get divorced. I'm building a successful business and it definitely has been a consideration against marriage. Divorce court totally favors women, and 70% of divorces are initiated by women.

Yeah, sadly we still live in a society where gender roles are present. Even many liberals encourage them despite their objections to the contrary. Women who take steps to protect themselves from harm are seen as brave victims who are overcoming undesirable odds. While if men do the same they are viewed as creeps and "manchildren". The latter term that should be seen as sexist to anyone who honestly cares about treating the genders the same.

Guys and girls, you would be surprised who is thinking about all that stuff, men and women, and deciding single is better, or living with someone, which I won't do, is the better option. Some won't marry someone that has lots of debt if they are debt-free themselves. And, yeah, male or female, it is smart to do a background check before you tie the knot nowadays.

Definitely depends on the company you follow, I know plenty of anti-feminist women who are totally sympathetic with MGTOWs.

And, yeah, I have read about guys that got saddled with child support for kids that were not even their kids. When I was considering dating and read that (and asked about it from a divorce lawyer and he said, yeah, in some cases....and, no it was not they adopted the kids), I decided, no single mothers, period.

I've heard of a few horror stories like this. In some jurisdictions if you live with a single mother and her children for an extended period of time you can become liable for their monetary wellbeing.

As for me I have no business dating single mothers. The major reason being is that I do not want children. Even after that, the idea of raising another man's offspring makes me cringe. The thought of another man raising my kids enrages me and I don't want to be that man to other guys.