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Meyer's new book

SLP

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This may not be news, but it is news to me - Stephen Meyer, he of Discovery Institute fame, has written yet another book, filled with basically the same old, re-packaged tripe for his built-in audience eager to cough up 30 bucks to be lied to again and again.

The book is called ‘Return of the God Hypothesis’ (2021), and it is in essence a recognition that creationism in all of its forms has nothing to offer but "hope".

I haven't read it, and will not read it. I have seen his "arguments" before, seen him cobble together multiple essays into book form to grift the usual suspects out of more of their money so they can re-read his already published-for-free essays on the subject. Which themselves were largely re-hashed slogans and tropes and standard strawman nonsense.

Anyway, there is a nice, concise review of it here, some of which I reproduce below, any emphases are mine.


"The book is neither a straight popularization of science nor an attempt to frame a clear scientific argument. Rather, it’s a well-crafted work of reporting and speculation at the frothy margins of scientific theory that, combined with a few leaps of logic, is harnessed in support of a foreordained conclusion. [...]
The book begins with a review of the relationship faith and science have enjoyed throughout history.[...]
Then we get to the science. Meyer asserts, based on three “scientific discoveries,” these key ideas underlying his argument:

  1. the universe had a beginning;
  2. from the beginning (or shortly thereafter), various physical constants have had values that are unlikely to have arisen by chance – that the universe appears to be “fine-tuned”; and
  3. the genetic coding in DNA represents a kind of “functional” information that is unlikely to have arisen by chance.
I find Meyer’s defense of each of these claims wanting. [...]
Meyer wants to tell us who created the universe. He doesn’t attempt to present or defend an answer for any of the questions science asks and seeks to answer.
This seems important to me because it suggests that, contrary to Meyer’s oft-repeated claims, the God Hypothesis actually has no true explanatory power. Rather, it merely claims to name an actor – and an ill-defined actor at that. I wonder, how is Meyer’s claim stronger than this one:

“Some non-sentient but unknown natural mechanism, of which we are as yet completely and utterly unaware, established the conditions under which our observable universe exists and the life within it flourishes.”

That wildly ambiguous claim would at least be rooted in something that is consistent with our universal and repeated experience (as Meyer might put it), that of physical reality and the laws that govern it.

In any case, the fact that Meyer’s hypothesis doesn’t actually answer the questions science asks, and that it opens up a universe of new questions (where did God come from, how does God do what God does, what does the mathematics of God look like, etc.) in the process of not answering them, should give us reason to pause, at least. [...]​

The following is the key part for me, for I have been making this same counter-argument for over a decade on forums like this one:


"Meyer argues in his book and in his numerous public appearances that, in our consistent and repeated experience, every instance of such functional information storage is the result of a guiding intelligence. It follows, he argues, that the storage of functional information in DNA must also be the product of a guiding intelligence.

This seems to be such an obviously poor and illogical argument that I find myself wondering if I am missing something profound. But let’s break it down.

  1. We are aware of numerous examples of the encoding of “functional” information in a structured form, from computer programs to grammars to all sorts of artificial symbolic schemes.
  2. Our experience with all of these is that they are the product of intelligence. Specifically, they are the product of human intelligence.
  3. It is, therefore, our uniform and repeated experience that such encoding is the product of intelligence.
  4. But we are also aware of the encoding of “functional” information in a structured form in the DNA that is found in each of our cells. It follows, therefore, that this information too must be the product of intelligence, since it is our universal and repeated experience that all such information is the product of intelligence.
But wait. That is – at best – a circular argument. If we include DNA in our initial inventory of “functional” information, then it’s no longer our uniform and repeated experience that such information is the product of intelligence. Rather, it’s our uniform and repeated experience that man-made encoding of information is man-made. That says nothing about not-man-made encoding of information.

(On the other hand, it does seem to me that Meyer would be more consistent if he argued that, since every instance of encoded information of which we’re aware is actually man-made, DNA must also be man-made. But that would be an even more absurd argument.)"​


Yup. Don't waste your time on Meyer's recycled propaganda.
 

Tolworth John

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“Some non-sentient but unknown natural mechanism, of which we are as yet completely and utterly unaware, established the conditions under which our observable universe exists and the life within it flourishes.”

That wildly ambiguous claim would at least be rooted in something that is consistent with our universal and repeated experience (as Meyer might put it), that of physical reality and the laws that govern it.

Why does what ever caused the universe to begin have to exist in or be consistent with our universe?
 
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Astrid

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This may not be news, but it is news to me - Stephen Meyer, he of Discovery Institute fame, has written yet another book, filled with basically the same old, re-packaged tripe for his built-in audience eager to cough up 30 bucks to be lied to again and again.

The book is called ‘Return of the God Hypothesis’ (2021), and it is in essence a recognition that creationism in all of its forms has nothing to offer but "hope".

I haven't read it, and will not read it. I have seen his "arguments" before, seen him cobble together multiple essays into book form to grift the usual suspects out of more of their money so they can re-read his already published-for-free essays on the subject. Which themselves were largely re-hashed slogans and tropes and standard strawman nonsense.

Anyway, there is a nice, concise review of it here, some of which I reproduce below, any emphases are mine.


"The book is neither a straight popularization of science nor an attempt to frame a clear scientific argument. Rather, it’s a well-crafted work of reporting and speculation at the frothy margins of scientific theory that, combined with a few leaps of logic, is harnessed in support of a foreordained conclusion. [...]
The book begins with a review of the relationship faith and science have enjoyed throughout history.[...]
Then we get to the science. Meyer asserts, based on three “scientific discoveries,” these key ideas underlying his argument:

  1. the universe had a beginning;
  2. from the beginning (or shortly thereafter), various physical constants have had values that are unlikely to have arisen by chance – that the universe appears to be “fine-tuned”; and
  3. the genetic coding in DNA represents a kind of “functional” information that is unlikely to have arisen by chance.
I find Meyer’s defense of each of these claims wanting. [...]
Meyer wants to tell us who created the universe. He doesn’t attempt to present or defend an answer for any of the questions science asks and seeks to answer.
This seems important to me because it suggests that, contrary to Meyer’s oft-repeated claims, the God Hypothesis actually has no true explanatory power. Rather, it merely claims to name an actor – and an ill-defined actor at that. I wonder, how is Meyer’s claim stronger than this one:

“Some non-sentient but unknown natural mechanism, of which we are as yet completely and utterly unaware, established the conditions under which our observable universe exists and the life within it flourishes.”

That wildly ambiguous claim would at least be rooted in something that is consistent with our universal and repeated experience (as Meyer might put it), that of physical reality and the laws that govern it.

In any case, the fact that Meyer’s hypothesis doesn’t actually answer the questions science asks, and that it opens up a universe of new questions (where did God come from, how does God do what God does, what does the mathematics of God look like, etc.) in the process of not answering them, should give us reason to pause, at least. [...]​

The following is the key part for me, for I have been making this same counter-argument for over a decade on forums like this one:


"Meyer argues in his book and in his numerous public appearances that, in our consistent and repeated experience, every instance of such functional information storage is the result of a guiding intelligence. It follows, he argues, that the storage of functional information in DNA must also be the product of a guiding intelligence.

This seems to be such an obviously poor and illogical argument that I find myself wondering if I am missing something profound. But let’s break it down.

  1. We are aware of numerous examples of the encoding of “functional” information in a structured form, from computer programs to grammars to all sorts of artificial symbolic schemes.
  2. Our experience with all of these is that they are the product of intelligence. Specifically, they are the product of human intelligence.
  3. It is, therefore, our uniform and repeated experience that such encoding is the product of intelligence.
  4. But we are also aware of the encoding of “functional” information in a structured form in the DNA that is found in each of our cells. It follows, therefore, that this information too must be the product of intelligence, since it is our universal and repeated experience that all such information is the product of intelligence.
But wait. That is – at best – a circular argument. If we include DNA in our initial inventory of “functional” information, then it’s no longer our uniform and repeated experience that such information is the product of intelligence. Rather, it’s our uniform and repeated experience that man-made encoding of information is man-made. That says nothing about not-man-made encoding of information.

(On the other hand, it does seem to me that Meyer would be more consistent if he argued that, since every instance of encoded information of which we’re aware is actually man-made, DNA must also be man-made. But that would be an even more absurd argument.)"​


Yup. Don't waste your time on Meyer's recycled propaganda.
" DI infamy"
 
Upvote 0