Mexican Cartel Family Members Welcomed to America

[DaisyDay]

https://apnews.com/article/el-chapo-sinaloa-cartel-trump-border-harfuch-86572a31c88a216da7cd5f33006a0011

Mexican Security Secretary Omar García Harfuch confirmed a report by independent journalist Luis Chaparro that family members of Ovidio Guzman Lopez, who was extradited to the United States in 2023, had entered the U.S.

...García Harfuch confirmed the family members’ crossing in a radio interview and said it was clear to Mexican authorities that they were doing so after negotiations between Guzmán López and the U.S. government.​

That's interesting in a bizarro sort of way.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It may be too early in the reporting cycle to know the exact details (but the AP article is alluding to it), ... I'm guessing this is part of some sort of agreement where they're perhaps cutting a deal with him to flip on some other organized crime figures south of the border, but he didn't want to do that while his family was still down there and prime targets for retaliation.

Sort of a "I'll give up the goods on some other people you're looking for, but you gotta get my family out of there first so they don't end up dismembered in a bathtub"

Much like the way some of the mafia types here in the US would flip on other mobsters, but that "flipping" wouldn't become public until their families were already safely relocated somewhere else hundreds of miles away as part of the witness protection service.

I read about that occurring on more than one occasion pertaining to both the Medellin and Cali cartels back in 80's and 90's... where some of Escobar's or Pacho Herrera's high ranking "sicarios" would provide testimony in exchange for safe relocation and US federal WITSEC protection for their family members.


Which makes sense... obviously one should avoid getting into that lifestyle in the first place, but... if one was in it, and knew how brutal those guys were, it makes sense that they don't want to be on the news testifying against the bosses while their kids, moms, and sisters are still living down there and particularly vulnerable.

 

[RileyG]

https://apnews.com/article/el-chapo-sinaloa-cartel-trump-border-harfuch-86572a31c88a216da7cd5f33006a0011

Mexican Security Secretary Omar García Harfuch confirmed a report by independent journalist Luis Chaparro that family members of Ovidio Guzman Lopez, who was extradited to the United States in 2023, had entered the U.S.​

​

...García Harfuch confirmed the family members’ crossing in a radio interview and said it was clear to Mexican authorities that they were doing so after negotiations between Guzmán López and the U.S. government.​

That's interesting in a bizarro sort of way.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[DaisyDay]

It may be too early in the reporting cycle to know the exact details (but the AP article is alluding to it), ... I'm guessing this is part of some sort of agreement where they're perhaps cutting a deal with him to flip on some other organized crime figures south of the border, but he didn't want to do that while his family was still down there and prime targets for retaliation.

Sort of a "I'll give up the goods on some other people you're looking for, but you gotta get my family out of there first so they don't end up dismembered in a bathtub"

Much like the way some of the mafia types here in the US would flip on other mobsters, but that "flipping" wouldn't become public until their families were already safely relocated somewhere else hundreds of miles away as part of the witness protection service.

I read about that occurring on more than one occasion pertaining to both the Medellin and Cali cartels back in 80's and 90's... where some of Escobar's or Pacho Herrera's high ranking "sicarios" would provide testimony in exchange for safe relocation and US federal WITSEC protection for their family members.


Which makes sense... obviously one should avoid getting into that lifestyle in the first place, but... if one was in it, and knew how brutal those guys were, it makes sense that they don't want to be on the news testifying against the bosses while their kids, moms, and sisters are still living down there and particularly vulnerable.

That was my impression as well. I just found it a bit ironic that as American citizens are getting deported for being family members, children, of undocumented aliens these family members of actual dangerous criminals are being imported. That contrast is ...interesting.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

That was my impression as well. I just found it a bit ironic that as American citizens are getting deported for being family members, children, of undocumented aliens these family members of actual dangerous criminals are being imported. That contrast is ...interesting.

It's all about money.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That was my impression as well. I just found it a bit ironic that as American citizens are getting deported for being family members, children, of undocumented aliens these family members of actual dangerous criminals are being imported. That contrast is ...interesting.

Have there been any confirmed cases of full fledged American citizens being forcibly deported?
(not cases where the children of people getting deported are citizens, and it was the parental choice to take the kids with them rather than leave them in the care of another family member here in the US)


...that aside, the dynamics are a little different when dealing with someone who's willing to a flip on a HVT.

That's be like saying "oh, so you don't have money to feed the poor, but you have money to buy a whole new identity and life for the family members of the criminal capo who ratted on the NY mafia bosses?"

 

[DaisyDay]

Have there been any confirmed cases of full fledged American citizens being forcibly deported?
(not cases where the children of people getting deported are citizens, and it was the parental choice to take the kids with them rather than leave them in the care of another family member here in the US)

The children I'm referring to are fully fledged American citizens whose parents did NOT want them deported, who had a citizen parent who both wanted and tried to have the children remain.

...that aside, the dynamics are a little different when dealing with someone who's willing to a flip on a HVT.

But it is similar to the dynamics when thousands of people with TPS got their protection summarily removed without regards to the danger it put them in, without even a review. Thousands had their asylum revoked without regards to their actual situation or what their situation would be when they are plopped back into the hell they escaped from? The families of the cartel have no particular virtue while the Afghanis who collaborated with the US putting their own lives at risk for our benefit but nevertheless are being deported.

That's be like saying "oh, so you don't have money to feed the poor, but you have money to buy a whole new identity and life for the family members of the criminal capo who ratted on the NY mafia bosses?"

How are those scenarios anywhere close to being "similar"? Families of citizens, some citizens themselves, are being deported while families of extremely dangerous, known criminals are being imported. How is that like not feeding the poor? What has that got to do with having money or not, spending or not?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

How are those scenarios anywhere close to being "similar"? Families of citizens, some citizens themselves, are being deported while families of extremely dangerous, known criminals are being imported. How is that like not feeding the poor? What has that got to do with having money or not, spending or not?

I was referring to the pros/cons tradeoff with regards to getting intelligence and evidence on HVTs.

The "why wouldn't you allow this set of folks in, but you are letting this other group in" and "why are you bending the rules in this other situation" type of talking points

The government (from the top level US federal entities, all the way down to local level prosecutorial discretion and plea deals) make those kinds of countervailing interest considerations all the time.

The reason why I used that particular example is because there was a bit of an uproar among activists in underserved communities when it was uncovered that during the peak of the RICO boom (which was in the 80's -- a time when Reagan was president, and there were efforts to scale back social welfare spending based on the caricature of the "welfare queen"), roughly 7,000 former mobsters/associates/family members were given "all expenses paid" new identities in new states (which is not a cheap endeavor by any means), and allowed to basically walk on previously committed crimes....all during the same time when poor communities were getting benefits slashed.


In this particular case, the rule bending is occurring due to the fact that the federal authorities see the ability of gaining intel on international drug rings as a greater good, that outweighs any cons associated with importing 17 family members of one of the cartel members.

Obviously one can make a "fairness"-based argument about it, but the same fairness argument can be made about a lot of plea deals.


If one guy gets popped dealing drugs, and does 10 years
Another guy gets popped dealing drugs, but because he happens to have intel on a "bigger fish", he gets a sweetheart plea deal and gets relocated and protected on the taxpayer dime.

Fair? Not really...but those are the trade-offs that authorities make.

 

[DaisyDay]

I was referring to the pros/cons tradeoff with regards to getting intelligence and evidence on HVTs.

And I was referring to the irony of deporting law abiding American citizens while importing cartel-connected foreigners. Do you not see the irony?

The "why wouldn't you allow this set of folks in, but you are letting this other group in" and "why are you bending the rules in this other situation" type of talking points

No, it is kicking out this set (American citizens) while ushering in that set (families of notorious criminals). Deporting citizens is a bit more than "bending the rules". Dispensing with habeas corpus is a lot more than "bending the rules".

The government (from the top level US federal entities, all the way down to local level prosecutorial discretion and plea deals) make those kinds of countervailing interest considerations all the time.

Here you are referring to the cartel's family members getting unusual benefits - is anyone disputing this?

The reason why I used that particular example is because there was a bit of an uproar among activists in underserved communities when it was uncovered that during the peak of the RICO boom (which was in the 80's -- a time when Reagan was president, and there were efforts to scale back social welfare spending based on the caricature of the "welfare queen"), roughly 7,000 former mobsters/associates/family members were given "all expenses paid" new identities in new states (which is not a cheap endeavor by any means), and allowed to basically walk on previously committed crimes....all during the same time when poor communities were getting benefits slashed.

You're making this counterargument on behalf of people not here from 40 or more years ago. Sounds like an appropriate rebuttal to that argument while being barely tangential to this thread.

In this particular case, the rule bending is occurring due to the fact that the federal authorities see the ability of gaining intel on international drug rings as a greater good, that outweighs any cons associated with importing 17 family members of one of the cartel members.

The more important bending of the rules is deporting American citizens and deporting aliens without due process. The cons, as I see them, are acting unlawfully, against the constitution and blatantly flouting judicial orders. The fact that this administration ran on deporting "the most vicious criminal foreigners" while actually targeting law-abiding people for their speech very ironic.

Obviously one can make a "fairness"-based argument about it, but the same fairness argument can be made about a lot of plea deals.

Who is arguing about "fairness" other than you to say too bad, so sad?

If one guy gets popped dealing drugs, and does 10 years
Another guy gets popped dealing drugs, but because he happens to have intel on a "bigger fish", he gets a sweetheart plea deal and gets relocated and protected on the taxpayer dime.

Okay, but that is within the law while suspending habeas corpus is not. Deporting citizens is not only "unfair" but unconstitutional. Do you see the difference?

Fair? Not really...but those are the trade-offs that authorities make.

Sure, but you're the only one talking about "fair". My point is about legalities and lack thereof and the irony of the situation compared to the propaganda presented.