Methodist yet not in the UMC?

[JGiddings]

Hi all.
The church I joined recently was a UMC church but broke away due to issues of stance on certain subjects.
It was called Sardis UMC
now it's just Sardis Church.
It was a purely contemporary worship UMC church.
It still is contemporary. We took communion and it was just like how a UMC church does it. The loaf, dipping into the wine, etc.
I had a chat with our pastor, who my wife went to high school with btw, about certain things. The church doesn't preach rapture/dispensationalist doctrine. It is notably Arminian in beliefs. It's not in your face, but doesn't teach the 5 solas, etc.
Rejects OSAS, and other things very different from most "non-denom" churches I've visited.
Question is this: can a church still be Methodist, yet not be in the UMC?

 

[JesusFo11ower]

Well there is free Methodist, and Nazarene is kind of Methodist. But if Methodist is not in its name, you would probably call it non-denominational.

 

[JGiddings]

The one thing that struck me, and it may be small to some people, is that they refer to Communion, and not "The Lord's Supper."
Very unusual for non-denoms, from personal experience only.

 

[RomansFiveEight]

The one thing that struck me, and it may be small to some people, is that they refer to Communion, and not "The Lord's Supper."
Very unusual for non-denoms, from personal experience only.

It sounds like your experience with non-denoms is the same as mine. They are primarily conservative/fundamentalist churches that really resemble the Baptist traditions.

Sounds like you've got a Pastor who left the UMC but started a church and is still very 'Methodist' in practice, and at least liturgical.

 

[Qyöt27]

Question is this: can a church still be Methodist, yet not be in the UMC?

To answer this part: yes. The UMC doesn't have a monopoly on Methodism - it's simply the largest Methodist body, a status it acquired because it solidified out of several mergers of smaller Methodist groups. It didn't absorb all of them, though: as pointed out already, there are Free Methodists, and African Methodist-Episcopal Zion, and so on.

It'd also be correct to say that they'd be theologically Wesleyan, since that's the categorical term for Methodist and related churches (including Church of the Nazarene and The Wesleyan Church). I've heard secondhand of non-denoms that supposedly lean Wesleyan, but I'd defer to assuming non-denoms are going to lean Baptist or what probably looks like what would happen if you threw the Radical Reformation and Restorationist movements into a blender - some of them will be pretty orthodox, others are going to be a giant mass of heresies, and any number of variations between those two extremes.

 

[BryanW92]

It sounds like your experience with non-denoms is the same as mine. They are primarily conservative/fundamentalist churches that really resemble the Baptist traditions.

Sounds like you've got a Pastor who left the UMC but started a church and is still very 'Methodist' in practice, and at least liturgical.

We have a non-denom nearby that is run by a former UMC ordained pastor who left the UMC prior to retirement and a former UMC licensed pastor who left the UMC (and took about a quarter of the congregation of his church with him). That was nine years ago, and today their church has a higher AWA than the four UMCs in town combined.

Their theology is still strongly Wesleyan, but their order of worship is very non-denom. They are considerably more conservative than the UMC, but they also don't have the sacred cows that come with an established denomination and congregation. Since this is a military town, that's what works.

 

[circuitrider]

I'm probably being picky here. But a non-denominational church may be Wesleyan theologically but they aren't really Methodists if they don't participate and believe in a connectional system. They are just partially Methodist.

Frankly unconnected churches scare me because while the church may be Wesleyan now, there is nothing to prevent the church from moving away from Wesleyan theology over time because there is no outside oversight. Non-denoms can be an unknown quantity. You never know what they believe until you get involved in one.

 

[WiredSpirit]

I think the vast majority of well established non-denominational churches, at least in my region, can trace their history back to Methodist circuit riders or the Campbell/Stone restoration movement. They all tend to be more conservative than mainline churches, and we have one church that has Methodist roots but became charismatic over the decades.

 

[JGiddings]

The good thing is that this entire congregation left with it's former pastor, the UMC.
I believe it's ok for now.

 

[BryanW92]

I'm probably being picky here. But a non-denominational church may be Wesleyan theologically but they aren't really Methodists if they don't participate and believe in a connectional system. They are just partially Methodist.

Frankly unconnected churches scare me because while the church may be Wesleyan now, there is nothing to prevent the church from moving away from Wesleyan theology over time because there is no outside oversight. Non-denoms can be an unknown quantity. You never know what they believe until you get involved in one.

The good thing is that this entire congregation left with it's former pastor, the UMC.
I believe it's ok for now.

I agree with both of you. The discipline of a denomination is a good thing for making sure that local churches don't go off the rails theologically just because some powerful factions in the church decide to do take it there.

But, when the conference is too busy to bother looking at local churches, then the denomination is already failing. The church that I am leaving is exactly like that. A small group of "big givers" decides what we do and don't do. One or more of them are in the pastor's office every week making demands, while the rest of us work during the day and the pastor is very fastidious about his office hours and his work/home time balancing so we do not get heard because we're busy between 10 and 2 on M-Th.

The people who aren't in the "power group" are deserting. No one in the district or conference is asking why, so the connectional system does what for the local church?

There comes a time when Christ takes his lampstand away from a church. A pastor who does not feed his sheep and a DS who only sees his congregations as numbers on spreadsheets destroys the church. People need to move back to the light, and that includes clergy who value God over their retirement plan.

 

[circuitrider]

Bryan, I sympathize with the dysfunctions in the local church you've experienced but the conference cannot fix local churches unless they want fixing. That isn't the falt of the connectional system but the leaders in the local church.

Sure the Bishop could move your pastor. But that usually doesn't change the dynamic in the local church if there is a power group that runs all the show. The Bishop has a fair amount authority but he can't kick people out of your local church.

The only people who an fix a dysfunctional local church are the members of that church. They carry the responsibility for that local church and the blame if they don't run it well.

When a church does want help the conference is usually happy and willing to lend a hand. But we have Bishops and cabinets and not Popes and Archbishops.

 

[RomansFiveEight]

Bryan, I sympathize with the dysfunctions in the local church you've experienced but the conference cannot fix local churches unless they want fixing. That isn't the falt of the connectional system but the leaders in the local church.

Sure the Bishop could move your pastor. But that usually doesn't change the dynamic in the local church if there is a power group that runs all the show. The Bishop has a fair amount authority but he can't kick people out of your local church.

The only people who an fix a dysfunctional local church are the members of that church. They carry the responsibility for that local church and the blame if they don't run it well.

When a church does want help the conference is usually happy and willing to lend a hand. But we have Bishops and cabinets and not Popes and Archbishops.

All too often, in my experience at least- the power group is rooted and dug in and bolted down. And the people who can facilitate change are intimidated by them and leave. Nobody ever stays long enough to change the power group. If they do? They've fought so hard that they themselves will become dug in and refuse change because they don't want to lose what they fought for. And the cycle continues.

 

[actionsub]

Hi all.
The church I joined recently was a UMC church but broke away due to issues of stance on certain subjects.
It was called Sardis UMC
now it's just Sardis Church.
It was a purely contemporary worship UMC church.
It still is contemporary. We took communion and it was just like how a UMC church does it. The loaf, dipping into the wine, etc.
I had a chat with our pastor, who my wife went to high school with btw, about certain things. The church doesn't preach rapture/dispensationalist doctrine. It is notably Arminian in beliefs. It's not in your face, but doesn't teach the 5 solas, etc.
Rejects OSAS, and other things very different from most "non-denom" churches I've visited.
Question is this: can a church still be Methodist, yet not be in the UMC?

The quick answer to your question is, "What about Free Methodists?"
I missed the part about "broke away" on the first reading. My home UMC church stayed UMC, but dropped the name Methodist from the church sign and all promotional materials to be "seeker-friendly".

 

[FergusonTO35]

I consider myself to be a Methodist Christian who attends a UMC church. I actually became Methodist back when I still attended a non-denominational Baptist church. I came to realize that I believe in Arminian theology, consider any baptism to be legitimate as long as the person is true believer in Christ, and I prefer to be a part of a connectional church. The Kentucky Annual Conference of the UMC and my own congregation in Lawrenceburg, KY fulfills me as a Christian so I'll stick with that until the Lord leads me elsewhere.