Methodist Hurts and Questions

[wmlbrn]

I was just fired from a Nazarene church by half the board. They had a 6 to 5 vote to let me go. Not sure how that can be a God thing???

 

[cristianna]

I was just fired from a Nazarene church by half the board. They had a 6 to 5 vote to let me go. Not sure how that can be a God thing???

I'm sorry to hear that. Praying for you.

 

[Timuchin]

I was just fired from a Nazarene church by half the board. They had a 6 to 5 vote to let me go. Not sure how that can be a God thing???

Sha-shing. Satan won another one. Jesus prayed for our unity. Guess what Satan prays for. Jesus ran off the half-hearted by talking about cannibalism. Satan infiltrates the churches with carnal Christians and idolators (see the book of Jude).
In Jacksonville Florida I had a Nazarene pastor who was feeling like he was under attack (I was an Episcopalian at the time). When I went there, he showed me this wall covered by ex-pastors. Average term, three years. This pastor had been there going on three years. He said there were two men in the congregation who were influencing the congregation to write up charges to kick him out.
We bound any unclean spirits on the property, prayed blessing on anyone who sat in the chairs & pews in the church, drove the neighborhood binding any evil spirits & praying blessing, and prayed blessing upon the pastor. In a couple of months, the people who were malcontents rolled out, while new families rolled in. The atmosphere in the church was different. Three years later, the pastor is still there, respected by all.

 

[JolieHeart]

A UMC where my parents live, did the same type of thing. The pastor wanted to have a different organist, and the one he had in mind said that she would take the job if her daughter could be the church custodian. The new organist and custodian were hired, with only the PPRC knowing all this. A letter of termination was sent to the former custodian, with no explanation/reason for the firing, simply a letter of "effective immediately, services no longer required." There had been no reprimands about her work quality. The former organist received no letter. She found out when she went to choir practice and the new organist was there.

Prayers and best wishes for you and your family InHisSpirit

 

[T2woman]

Well I have to say that as a church staff member Churches are filled with less than perfect humans. One of the things that our pastor told me when he came to work her is...

If you ever want to have a crisis of faith go to work for a church...

Clergy killers are one of the greatest risks facing the ministry.

I had a beautiful pair of Rose Colored glassed when I came her. they have been ripped off and stomped on several times.

You have my prayers... I too am uninsurable due to medical conditions. and I know the there are toxic congregations in all denominations.

But I remember..... I can do all things thru Christ (not the Church, SPRC or any persiding committee) who strengethend me.

 

[foreveramanda]

It hurts when the Pastor feels nothing but angry or feels nothing for the church. The pastor at the church I currently attend has a mixed mind set he doesn't care for all people of all ages of all walks of life. So I have watched the church fall apart.

As for the PPRC they do have a good deal of power. I know this because my dad is a Methodist Pastor. It varies from church to church HOW MUCH power they will have but I know at the churches my dad has worked at the PPRC can give suggestions for who will be hired/fired.

The UMC at times has too many committees. I know that when we lived in the house the church provided we had to go to the Trustees and ask permission to do things like paint the house or get the air conditioner fixed.

All in all though what you and your husband are going through is not a common occurence.

 

[aigiqinf]

Thank you everyone....I just recieved word that the district will not move the pastor b/c he is only 1 year from retirement. The church and the pastor requested this, but they don't see one more year as a problem...i am afraid the church is going to suffer more b/c this pastor is not motivated and he is angry. I do understand this is not typical of all UMC churches, Please just pray for this church...

What conference is this in?
Pax et bonum,
James Crowe <><

 

[liarsandmartyrs]

As a Methodist myself, I know the problem, I see it frequently. The problem with Methodists is that they have gotten away from their roots and their Christian traditions and cling to their Welsian traditions. Alot of churches and denominations have this problem, but none as bad as the Methodists. I have said it to Pastor so many times when brainstorming on how to get our congregation involved into something. We have to look and see what tradition has to say about it because most Methodists listen to Wesley more than they listen to Jesus.

What it soundsa like to me is that noone, including your Pastor, has called this guy onto the carpet. Doing so is not un Methodist nor is it unChristian. Jesus Himself says that if a brother sins against you we are to rebuke him, if he returns later and repents, than we are to forgive him. I know this to be true in my own church, when things happen and people get hurt and upset, they never try to resolve it, they just stew over it or they leave the church. Christ has called us into a ministry of reconciliation. This person may not be willing, but the body of your church should be. If we are true believers, we would recognize when the enemy is infiltrating our churches and we would put be Johnny on the spot when this happens to resolve and fix it. Pauls warns us that wolves from even amoung us will raise up against us, this is those in our own congregations.
I do not prescribe to tell you what to do, though I know you already know what needs to be done. Listen to the Spirit, What is God calling to be done about this? Is He calling you to be passive? or assertive? Remember being "MEEK" does not mean "WEAK" it means, "Being of gentle spirit." "Correctable", "Teachable", not what the secular world thinks that we roll over and take everything that is thrown at us with all passivity. We do not get aggressive, but we do stand firm on our Christian ethics and Christs' teachings.
Welsey's journal and sermons are good references for confronting those who are in the wrong without being confrontational.

wesley.nnu.edu/john_wesley/index.htm

copy and paste this address in your browser to read not only his journal and sermons, but also Welsey's theology, Josephus reports, Letters to the early Methodists, Charles Wesley's Hymns, and the Wesley version of the New Testament.
Pray and ask guidance from God. Like I said, I think you and your husband already know what God is calling you to do. And i do not think it is to lay back and take it, nor is it to leave the church.
May God keep and bless you and your family always dear sister in Christ.

 

[eklectic]

Liarsandmartyrs has hit upon an important point in this discussion and that point is this: there are very few churches, Methodist or otherwise, who follow the New Testament pattern of being the church.

In the New Testament, the church met together and shared with one another to the extent that it could be said, "There was no one needy among them."

Ever seen that done in a modern, institutionalized church? Me neither.

The churches that I grew up in (which were not Methodist, but "institutionalized Christianity" is "institutionalized Christianity") were always big on preaching tithes and offerings, never once hesitating to quote Malachi's warning to Israel that she was robbing God by not giving God his due. But they felt unaccountable to what the money was used for as far as the congregation goes. Unlike the early church, modern churches use the money taken in for salaries, building big buildings, and pet projects that seldom benefit the congregation or the community. What they are saying with how they delegate the money is this: "This is how God would spend it." If so, where does Jesus ever sanction high-paid salaries, building buildings, and neglecting the needs of the community?

The point of the offerings in the early church was to take care of the needs (not the wants, but the needs) of as many of its members as possible, whether those needs were laity or "common folk". The modern church, in my opinion, has completely lost sight of this mission. And that is precisely why there can be a need in the congregation for a kidney and not only won't that need be met, but even the insurance that could provide the kidney is withdrawn.

The bottom line is that the Body has become a Business. The Body no longer takes care of itself. And when we neglect the Body of Christ, we "cut off our nose to spite our face". It tells the world what kind of Jesus we believe in -- a Jesus who cares less whether we live out loving one another or not. We should be, instead, the kind of church where people say, "Look how they love one another."

 

[T2woman]

I just wanted to share this with you all.

As many of you know I am on a medical leave of absence due to an injury at work. I am a staff member at a UM Church. I was going thrugh a lot of stress and disapointment because my pastor has not once in the last 4 weeks come to my home or prayed with me over my situation. I was feeling as if I was waisting my time working for the Church when I could be making so much more money in the secular world.( I had been considering quiting before this happened because of my disapointment with leadership or lack there of) Not to mention that my pay has been cut by 1/3rd. I was feeling really abandoned.

I continued to teach my Sunday School Class (I am thankful for the time I have for greater Bble Study). Finally I really humbled myself in prayed and poured it all out to the Lord, my feelings of loneliness and fear ( I suffer from deep bouts of depression). The next thing I knew (just a couple of hours later) my doorbell rang and a lady from church who is a prayer warrior was standing there. She said that the lord had been placing it on her heart to come and pray with me. Boy did I need that! Just an hour later a pastor who I meet and talk with at the coffee shop before work was standing there with his wife. (He did not know where I lived, He just remembered that I had mentioned I was by the river a few blocks from my church, so they had drove around untill he spotted my Jeep) He said that the Lord had laid it on his heart that I needed help. They bought a hundred dollars of food and stocked my cubbords and freezer (All I had in the fridge was condiments) Blessing me so much.

One of my major sources of fear was a tax bill of $600 that was going to be due during the time I would not be working. I had told no one of my need. In the last 3 days I have received from different congregation members $850 (Not from the Pastor or SPRC) but from church members who have answered Gods prompting.

Yes the Church (Universal) has problems. We argue and bicker over doctrine and tradition. We complane that our spritual and emotional needs are not being met. But above all that we need to remember it is also filled with people who answer the Prompting of the Holy Spirit.

I know that God litterly needed to use my injury to remind me of that fact and that he alone is the source of all my needs. And he blesses his people thru his people. Also I needed to be reminded that he places us/me where he needs us/me to be.

He made me remember what I am allways telling my students... You Can't have a TESTamony with out a TEST. He has a plan and a purpose for everything even when we can't see it.

On a sad note... When I got home form the Dr's today I was told that one of the elderly ladies who contributed to my love gift was struck by a car and killed. ( She was walking down the street taking blueberrys to the pastor ... and was struck by another elderly Lady who she knew, in front of the pastor's house. He is also in need of prayer along with the families affected by this tragic accident)

Life is precious and we do not know what each day will hold. We must appreciate each day the Lord has given us remembering to.. rejoice and be glad in it!

 

[eklectic]

Thanks so much for sharing that TESTimony with us, T2. It is so encouraging to know that God's hands are not tied when those we expect to minister don't. He finds a way through someone else.

I, too, had a time of testing a few years ago when, due to circumstances in my life, I lost my faith. I stopped going to church. I couldn't even pray. After a few weeks of my abscence, a few of the church members came around to say that they missed me and wished I would return. And of course they reminded me that it was my duty to be in church on Sunday morning.

But the person that ministered to me the most was not a pastor or a deacon. It was just a friend who came and listened to me pour my heart out over my trial. He didn't quote Romans 8:28 to me or give me a plethora of verses about how I should be faithful. He didn't offer pat answers to my struggling questions. He just listened...and he cried with me. I saw Jesus in that man that day. And it made all the difference. My trial didn't suddenly end but I no longer felt so alone. This friend embodied the living Christ in a time when I needed a prescense more than anything else.

In rereading my previous post, I see that I can be overly critical of the Church. And the truth of the matter is the same criticisms that I level at the Church can be leveled right at me. But, like you, I thank God that he does still work through his Body here on earth to do the Father's will. It doesn't always happen in our timing or in the ways we would expect, but Christ is still here and living in and through his people. Thankfully, he has far more patience with his church than I do.

 

[GraceSeeker]

T2woman,
Thanks for the reminder that we don't serve a church, a congregation, a staff-parish committee, or a pastor. We serve God, and God does supply us with all our needs.

Sadly, what is being discussed here happens all too often at churches of all denominations. In the UMC, the system is set up to protect pastors under appointment from the bishop with the "guarantee" of an appointment to another church if the one they are appointed to is a poor match, and to "guarantee" local churches the appointment of a pastor to serve them if they lose their pastor. In truth, we have to say there is no such thing as a real "guarantee" because there are pastors every year who, for one reason or another, are told by their bishop that they are "unappointable" and churches that are left "to be supplied". But the "guarantee" is the norm.

However, for non-appointed staff, those who are hired under contract directly with local churches, the guarantee is only as good as the legal contract one has, and promises with respect to the future are only as good as the integrity of the individuals involved. Devoid of either of these and one is in jeapordy even week to week, so be forewarned. Also be wary, that churches often are exempt from paying unemployment taxes and thus a person fired from a church may find that they are not even eligible for unemployment insurance.

I do NOT write these things to denegrade the UMC or any church. I have in the past been lay staff, a youth pastor, associate pastor, solo pastor. I have also experienced a time in my own ministry when I had to take leave from the UMC because my D.S. told my bishop that I was unappointable. And I have returned from that experience to actually serve on a bishop's staff. And am now the senior pastor of a medium-sized UMC with a staff of 4. I only write because I see people getting hurt. Sometimes we are hurt by what others do to us, sometimes by what we do to ourselves, and sometimes because we do not understand what the realities of our various situations are.

I'm a born and bred Methodist, but have also some experience with the UCC, Lutheran Church (ELCA) and Disciples of Christ, and of course have been privy to conversations with pastors of many other denominations as well. Each system has its plusses and minuses. I tend to think ours as good or better than most. But as with all systems it is only as good as the men and women who are part of it. No one with an axe to grind should ever be given authority over another person in any system. That this appears to have happened to the husband of InHisSpirit is a breakdown in the working of ours. It grieves me to hear it.



InHisSpirit,
I don't know if this is an option for you or not. I understand from what I read that your husband is NOT an ordained UMC pastor nor consecrated as a deacon. But if your husband has credentials from some place, it may be that there is yet an opportunity for service within even the appointed structure of the UMC and with healthcare benefits. Now this will vary from conference to conference, so I can't get specific. But your husband should contact the local District Superintendent and make it known to him/her of his interest in serving a church (mostly likely it won't be as a youth pastor any place, but to a small struggling church that can't afford a full time pastor, but might be able to be able to afford to be served by a "local pastor"). He should be straight forward with the D.S. as to the reason and his needs. In many locations the UMC needs one or two more pastors to meet that goal of providing a pastor to every church. And so persons from other denominations (even laity) are often welcomed to serve as "local pastors" in our churches either for a short-term or, if they desire to officially become UMC, until they have been fully accredited in the life of the United Methodist Church. Again the place to start this is with the local district superintendent. It may go no where, or it may quickly become something, it all depends on the needs in the area.

God be with you.