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Metaphors & reality - knowing the difference

Setyoufree

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Let's take Col 1:13 "For He (God the Father) rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."

Who is "us"? We must look at time and place. This was written over 2000 years ago before any of us existed.

Then who is "us"?

Let's go to Eph 2:5 "...when we were dead in our transgressions (sins), God made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved ), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

If we can't understand these metaphors we can't understand "the truth as it is in Christ" - that is, the gospel!

Anyone?
 

Setyoufree

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More metaphors (all dealing with our salvation):

2 Cor 5:14 "or the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died"

Romans 7:4 "You also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ"

Rom 6:6 "our old self was (past tense, refers to the cross) crucified with Him"

But wait, I'm not dead. I, the individual, didn't die 2000 years ago because I wasn't alive.

So how can we explain these metaphors and at the same time arrive at truth?
 
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Setyoufree

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These aren't metaphors. Some actions occur both inside and outside time.

Sure they are....You aren't in heaven and you, the individual, didn't die in Christ. If you did then,

1] you're over 2000 years old

2] and you've been resurrected from the dead. :doh:
 
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Setyoufree

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Romans 5:18 "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men."

In Adam all men stand condemned and in Christ all men stand justified unto eternal life.

Here's what we need to understand: The phrases (metaphors) "In Adam" & "In Christ"
 
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Setyoufree

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[SIZE=+2]The Truth As It Is In Christ[/SIZE]

One of the great challenges that faces the Christian Church today is how can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]? Because no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one many sincere people, especially Islamic scholars, accuse Christianity of being an unethical religion. Their main argument is that the doctrine of substitution, as taught by Christianity, is based on a faulty Roman law which allowed an innocent man, Christ, to die in place of the guilty human race. Hence they accuse the Christians religion of “legal fiction.”
It is true that even the law of God clearly prohibits an innocent man dying for the guilty — “the soul that sins, it must die” [Deuteronomy 24:16; Ezekiel 18:1-20 emphasis supplied]. What than is the Biblical solution to the problem of “legal fiction.” The answer is the in Christ motif or idea, the central theme of the apostle Paul’s theology.
There is a key phrase that runs through Paul’s epistles. If you were to take this phrase out, there would be very little left of Paul’s exposition of the gospel. This recurring phrase is the expression in Christ or in Christ Jesus. This phrase is sometimes expressed by other similar phrases, such as, in Him, by Him, through Him, in the Beloved, together with Him, etc. These are all synonymous terms implying the in Christ motif.
The truth behind this phrase was first introduced by Christ Himself, when He told His disciples to “abide in me.” These are the under girding words of the gospel. And if we don’t understand what the New Testament means by this expression in Christ, we will never be able to fully understand the incredible good news of the gospel.
There is nothing we have as Christians except we have it in Christ. Everything we enjoy and hope for, as believers, i.e., the peace through justification by faith, the Holy Spirit power to live holy lives through the experience of sanctification, and the blessed hope of glorification, is ours always in Christ. Outside of Him we have nothing but sin, condemnation, and death.
The expression in Christ, however, is a rather difficult phrase to understand. Just as “you must be born again” was mind-boggling to Nicodemus; so likewise, the concept of in Christ is a very difficult idea for us to understand. This is especially true of the western mind. How can I, as an individual, be in someone else? Worse still, how could I, born in the twentieth century, have been in Christ who lived almost 2000 years ago? This makes absolutely no sense to our western way of thinking. As a result we miss the full blessing that God has prepared for us in Christ.
What does Scripture mean when it tells us that we were together with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, and now, are sitting with Him in heavenly places [Ephesians 2:5,6]? Because we cannot fathom these facts we tend to ignore or skim over them. Yet the whole understanding of the gospel hinges on our understanding the significance of these two vital words in Christ.
The in Christ motif or idea is based on the biblical idea of solidarity or corporate oneness. Therefore, if we are to come to grips with this phrase we must first understand what the Bible has to say about solidarity. Two New Testament texts help us understand Biblical solidarity. The first is Romans 9:12, a quotation taken from Genesis 25:23 — the twins, Esau and Jacob, represent two nations, not individuals. The second is Hebrews 7:7-l — Levi paid tithe to Melchizedek in Abraham, since he was “in the loins” of his great grandfather Abraham when he paid tithe to Melchizedek.

Because the Bible teaches that the human race is the multiplication of Adam’s life the fundamental truth of Scripture is:
  1. God created all men in one man — i.e., in Adam [Acts 17:26].
  2. Satan ruined all men in one man — i.e., in Adam [Romans 5:12, 18a].
  3. God redeemed all men in one man — i.e., in Christ [Titus 2:11; 1 John 2:2].
In order to save fallen humanity, God had to first qualify Christ to be our substitute so that He could live and die in our place. God did this by uniting Christ’s divinity to our corporate humanity, that needed redeeming, in the incarnation. This is the in Christ motif [see 1 Corinthians 1:30]. Through this union Christ became the second or last Adam (the word adam in Hebrew has a collective significance and means mankind).
As our substitute and representative Christ had to meet the full demands of the law in order to save fallen humanity. By His perfect obedience Christ met the positive demands of the law, and by His death He met the justice of the law. Thus, in this doing and dying He legally justified all men and became humanity’s Savior [Romans 5:18; Ephesians 2:5, 6]. Just as in Adam all die, likewise Scripture declares that in Christ all shall live [1 Corinthians 15:21, 22].
Because God created man with a free will, Christ’s identity with us has to be reciprocal to make the legal justification He obtained for all men effective individually. This is what justification by faith is all about. Faith is the channel or instrument by which the believer accepts his or her united with Christ and Him crucified (Galatians 2:19, 20). This two-sided union — You in Christ and Christ in you — is what constitutes true Christianity and man’s only hope of salvation: standing legally just before God’s holy law [Romans 10:4].
 
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N

Nanopants

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Let's take Col 1:13 "For He (God the Father) rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."

Who is "us"? We must look at time and place. This was written over 2000 years ago before any of us existed.

Then who is "us"?

Let's go to Eph 2:5 "...when we were dead in our transgressions (sins), God made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved ), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

If we can't understand these metaphors we can't understand "the truth as it is in Christ" - that is, the gospel!

Anyone?

I'm not sure I understand the dilemma, as "us" would include the intended audience.
 
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Setyoufree

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Indeed. There are no metaphors here. All Christians are being addressed.

Not just Christians. Re-read Eph 2:5 "...when we were dead in our transgressions (sins), God made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved ), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus."
 
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rockytopva

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John Bunyan was a great writer in metaphors/parables and he explains the use of them in his "The Barren Fig Tree" work (http://www.chapellib.../bun-barren.pdf):

6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. - Luke 13:6-9

In parables there are two things to be taken notice of, and to be inquired into of them that read.

First, The metaphors made use of.
Second, The doctrine or mysteries couched under such metaphors.

The metaphors in this parable are,
1. A certain man;
2. A vineyard;
3. A fig-tree, barren or fruitless;
4. A dresser;
5. Three years;
6. Digging and dunging, &c.

The doctrine, or mystery, couched under these words is to show us what is like to become of a fruitless or formal professor. For,

1. By the man in the parable is meant God the Father (Luke 15:11).
2. By the vineyard, his church (Isa 5:7).
3. By the fig-tree, a professor.
4. By the dresser, the Lord Jesus.
5. By the fig-tree’s barrenness, the professor’s fruitlessness.
6. By the three years, the patience of God that for a time he extendeth to barren professors.
7. This calling to the dresser of the vineyard to cut it down, is to show the outcries of justice against fruitless professors.
8. The dresser’s interceding is to show how the Lord Jesus steps in, and takes hold of the head of his Father’s axe, to stop, or at least to defer, the present execution of a barren fig-tree.
9. The dresser’s desire to try to make the fig-tree fruitful, is to show you how unwilling he is that even a barren fig-tree should yet be barren, and perish.
10. His digging about it, and dunging of it, is to show his willingness to apply gospel helps to this barren professor, if haply he may be fruitful.
11. The supposition that the fig-tree may yet continue fruitless, is to show, that when Christ Jesus hath done all, there are some professors will abide barren and fruitless.
12. The determination upon this supposition, at last to cut it down, is a certain prediction of such professor’s unavoidable and eternal damnation.

But to take this parable into pieces, and to discourse more particularly, though with all brevity, upon all the parts thereof. ‘A certain MAN had a fig-tree planted in his vineyard.’ The MAN, I told you, is to present us with God the Father; by which similitude he is often set out in the New Testament. Observe then, that it is no new thing, if you find in God’s church barren fig-trees, fruitless professors; even as here you see is a tree, a fruitless tree, a fruitless fig-tree in the vineyard.

Fruit is not so easily brought forth as a profession is got into; it is easy for a man to clothe himself with a fair show in the flesh, to word it, and say, Be thou warmed and filled with the best. It is no hard thing to do these with other things; but to be fruitful, to bring forth fruit to God, this doth not every tree, no not every fig-tree that stands in the vineyard of God. Those words also, ‘Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh away,’ assert the same thing (John 15:2). There are branches in Christ, in Christ’s body mystical, which is his church, his vineyard, that bear not fruit, wherefore the hand of God is to take them away: I looked for grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes, that is, no fruit at all that was acceptable with God (Isa 5:4). Again, ‘Israel is an empty vine, he bringeth forth fruit unto himself,’ none to God; he is without fruit to God (Hosea 10:1). All these, with many more, show us the truth of the observation, and that God’s church may be cumbered with fruitless fig-trees, with barren professors.
 
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sunlover1

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Let's take Col 1:13 "For He (God the Father) rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."

Who is "us"? We must look at time and place. This was written over 2000 years ago before any of us existed.

Then who is "us"?

Let's go to Eph 2:5 "...when we were dead in our transgressions (sins), God made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved ), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

If we can't understand these metaphors we can't understand "the truth as it is in Christ" - that is, the gospel!

Anyone?

They are not metaphors, they are spiritual realities.
Yep.
Not metaphors
 
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